Interesting design….

wow > 1000 psf at Teluk Bahang.. There is interesting..

@cl

interesting what? ByTheSea by SDB also RM1000/sqft mah, not news anymore. But it seems the river that SDB is trying to rehabilitate has been contaminated with e-coli. Anyway, small rivers like this in malaysia is always treated like a drain, meaning just throw anything you wish into it. Then the rats would come and have their meals and showers….:)

Last year buy Condo in Bayan Lepas only RM500 psf, this year Teluk Bahang alr start goreng till RM1000 psf? Really huat lah!

@@Wu Pa
Different la Bro.

That condo bayan baru is empty house four walls. This one different a lot:
1. Area
2. Fully furnished
3. Managed by Bayan Tree Group

Should i assume this Banyan Tree group is the same as the Banyan Tree Singapore owned by Ho Kwon Ping?

Let’s just assume it is first. Now

@@Wu Pa

To compare Bayan Lepas to Banyan Tree is like comparing BMX to BMW (apart from very similar spelling, they are totally different things). Angsana is selling concept, not real estate. Whether the concept is rewarding or not, no one knows. Otherwise you wouldn’t have Mutiara Beach Resort (which is situated next to this) dying a slow and painful death some years back.

Oh yes, if they are going to build and run this place like a typical Banyan Tree resort, let me assure you that the maintenance fees would be exorbitant. Once you start to have defaulters, the place will be falling apart, and become “bayam tree”. There must be a reason why the land owner/developer decides to build and sell retail, rather than try to make money from a “Banyan Tree” franchise…..:)

@@Wu Pa

Why don’t you compare Teluk Kumbar and Straits Quay?

Not too deep, Teluk Bahang is just a name. It is still very Batu Ferringhi feel. Go get one at one mil, n wait for it to appreciate to 1.5Mil.

Penang hotels fully booked every weekend at the rates of RM600++ per night. This is the truth, my very own experience as we booked a night at Golden Sands last week and wanted to extend the stay but could not as it was overbooked by 7 rooms. Then we called Parkroyal, Hard Rock and Lone Pine all running on full occupancy.

@Penang Property Showroom

Don’t bullshit lah. This is low peak season. Most hotels on the beach are only half occupied…..:)

Well I don’t gain anything here……

Well, if any of you is really interested in finding out room occupancies for hotels on the beach, it’s really pretty easy. Just check out hotel reservation websites that offer instant confirmation (agoda, asiatravel.com etc), and book 8-10 rooms at one go, you’ll then get a feel of it…..:)

@Penang Property Showroom

Your gain or loss is none of my business, but one shouldn’t tell lies…..:) Didn’t your parents teach you that?

@gOLLUM….Its up to y ou to believe or not. Lies not my cup of tea…..sorry. Maybe your parents didn’t teach you to not to talk about other ppls’s parents. Just my 2 sens….over and out.

It is true that the occupancy rates for hotels along batu ferringhi area are very high. Last year in June I tried getting a hotel for an Austalian couple and the only room available was the penthouse suite at Rasa Sayang. It was going for rm10000 per night so no thank you. Finally we managed to find one in Yeng Keng hotel. So I believe what Penang property showroom said. It is my own personal experience as well.

I believe by the sea is going for rm1400psft and it is 80% sold. Banyan tree is going for rm1400-1500psft,even more expensive

@lol

There’s no need to guess. gollum already showed you a very practical way in verifying the occupancy of beach hotels. I have personally tested it, and so far, it looks like there are plenty of rooms available at hard rock, rasa, golden sands etc.

It is possible that the hotels are fully booked only at certain peak periods. But are you able to make good returns by just relying on certain peak periods? Not forgetting after you bought the units, you’d have to pay the property manager a hefty fees for managing and maintaining the property for you (and i assure you banyan tree won’t come cheap)…..:)

@lol

At the end of the day, we should remember one thing, foreign visitors are never impressed by our sea water cleanliness. Their typical reaction at first sight of our beach – “why is the water so murky?”…..:)

SDB (by the sea) was very gungho with the rehabilitation of the river beside the property, until it was seriously contaminated by e-coli bacteria recently. This is Msiam village, we put shit into our rivers, and then it flows into the sea….:)

@calamari

that’s very true. The villagers and restaurants there dump shit into the sea. However, occupancy rates are still high. It goes to show people still love the sea even though it is still full of waste.

I am pretty sure now the pollution has received the state’s attention and something will be done about it in the near future.

After all, all the 5 star hotels are located along that stretch

@James

I would recommend you personally check out hotel occupancy rates through online reservation websites…..:)

Yes, river & sea pollution have received the state’s attention and something must be done.

Same goes for illegal parking that obstructs traffic. I think the state has started seriously trying to tackle that issue since 2008, and was surprised by penang drivers’ “addiction” in illegal parking! They simply park, you clamp their cars, they lay low for a while, then the old habits kick back in again. The state should consider a “parking rehab centre” for offenders…..:)

Assuming occupancy rates are high during peak season. CNY,New Year,middle east visit malaysia,november and december,georgetown heritage month,thaipusam,hari raya. I guess we can estimate 120 days out of 365 daysin a year. One night would be rm600 a night for a suite. 120 days = rm72,000 a year. This is just being conservative since we are taking into account peak periods only. After all, hotels only need 3 good months and they are set for the entire year.

@lol

According to the developer, based on an annual occupancy rate of 80%, your yield is only around 5%. 5% is probably what you get on average based on today’s overall property price vs rental.

But the issue is this. If you buy a property in a prime area and get 5% return, it’s ok because the flexibility is there. You can sell the property anytime, you can stay there yourself, you can rent it out if you get a good tenant and rental etc.

But with this, the flexibility is not there. You’d have to lease it back to Banyan Tree (and it’s not even labelled under Banyan Tree, Angsana is actually one grade down from Banyan Tree, although same company). You’re given 60 days free accommodation in a year at “your own property”….:)

Then i guess we are better off buying by the sea. Since location wise is better and price wise also much lower. Just that you will have to manage the unit yourself.

With banyan tree the owner gets only 40% of the rental. The rest goes to banyan tree angsana as management fees and maintenance.

60 days allows you stay at any properties under the angsana brand and that includes maldives,phukett,china,bangkok etc

@lol

Huh? What are you going to do with ByTheSea? Stay there? Rent out? It’s so far from town! Batu Feringgi road jam only, it will take you hours to get to anywhere!

I am just saying. it is at the same stretch as all the 5 star hotels. We can’t deny it has potential for rental to tourists and expats whom is looking for a beachfront property bro. Far for you and me but for them they plan on staying there for their holidays. Niche market bro.

@lol

Eeehh….expat looking for beachfront property? Got a lot mah, infinity, cove, 1tanjong etc, sommo near to dalat, near to gurney etc. So that leaves you with only tourists. Well, you could have tenants here and there, but yields won’t be fantastic lah…..:)

Expats usually dont plan on buying and for them to rent such a huge super condo for retirement would be not desirable. Besides most of them like batu ferringhi, they claim the people there are nicer maybe because it is due to the hospitility of the people there towards tourists.

No doubt there are expats renting these super condos as well. I am just trying to say tjere is a market for every location.

Even if you rented it out to tourist, all you need to do is rent it out during the peak seasons (120 days) a year for rm650 per night.

There are less competition compared with residential condos and super condos. Most importantly there is a niche market for developments like these.

After all you have 5 million tourists a year visting Penang. I am pretty sure 120 days is achievable a year.

@lol

Theoretically it doesn’t sound hard to get 120 days a year, but you have not considered the details.

(1) Who will market the unit for you? SDB? Would they do it for you for free?
(2) You can’t compare standalone private accommodation to branded chain hotels, the market reach is significantly different, so your pool of targeted tenants is significantly smaller then hotel market.
(3) TV sets (and other removable items) get stolen very often for private short term rental accommodation.
(4) It’s a real hassle to be managing all this, with different tenants all year long. If SDB provides the service, would they do it free for you?…..:)

Are you going to be compensated with super good yields with all that hassle? Doubt so, and worst thing is, with that kind of location (far from civilization), you have limited flexibility in converting it to a long term rental.

The good thing about long term rental is it is pretty much auto pilot once you rent your unit out. For some condos in good prime location, you actually sit there for years (10-15 years) without having to do anything, just collect rental…..:) By then, the property value would have doubled or tripled….:) Of course, if you go for Angsana, you basically sit there and do nothing as well, but don’t forget the RM1600/sqft upfront plus the ongoing fees they charge you lah!….:)

Now speaking of capital values, the value of a condo in good prime location is always directly correlated to the “overall” real estate value, whereas it is not the case for “tourist” properties like Angsana & ByTheSea. Their value is correlated to hotel room rates. If you plot a chart of “property value” vs “hotel room rates”, you will find that it has been an up trend for property price in the last 10 years, but flat for hotel rates…..:)

But having said all that, I am sure the developer can still sell his Angsana. Afterall, it’s only 150 units…..:) Just like ByTheSea, 100+ units, they can clear 70% of the units by just selling to well-heeled friends and relatives….:)

Remember, Angsana’s value proposition by the developer is not capital appreciation nor high rental yields. The value proposition is a safe 5% yield, 60-day vacation plus you get to brag about owning a Banyan Tree beach front property in Msia’s world heritage site…..:)

And the VALUE to the developer would be, at the end of it, the money he makes from selling all these units would be enough for him to cover the cost of land, and a 100+ hotel rooms. Free hotel, not bad eh!….:)

It is actually easy to manage. List it on trip advisor or agoda. People would start booking early. Get a roaster of who is coming on which day. During peak seasons people will walk in to look for rooms, I have done that before and it is fully booked all the time during peak season.

We will only know once these projects are completed.

I do believe by the sea is prime in terms of location. At least better than angsana’s location. Thats just my view though. I respect your views and perhaps once it is ready we will be able to find out more about the outcome.

@lol

How do you pass the key to the tenant? They will call you when they arrive at the lobby then you’d rush there? Or would SDB do that for you for free? During peak seasons when people walk in to look for rooms, would you be standing waiting there all day? Or would SDB do it for you for free?…:) After they check out, who will clean the apartment? Check the inventories? Would SDB do it for you for free? And sometimes they check out together with your TV, hairdryer, microwave etc, would you be making the police report? Or would SDB do it for you for free?….:)

In fact, the concept of service apartment is not new. Leisure Bay used to be one, until it was proven not sustainable, so it’s mostly residential now. Leisure cove is still one, but it’s totally haunted! Oh, the one built by Ideal called Crystal Point or something in Bayan Lepas, totally kaput..:).

Well, in short, if you want this type of property to be maintained well in the long run, you need someone like Banyan Tree to manage the whole property. BUT, Angsana wants a big premium from buyers for putting everything together, so that he’ll get his free hotel….:) So, no matter Angsana or SDB, you’re getting the short end of the stick anyway! There are better prospects elsewhere bro…:)

well….

@lol

How do you pass the key to the tenant? They will call you when they arrive at the lobby then you’d rush there? Or would SDB do that for you for free? During peak seasons when people walk in to look for rooms, would you be standing waiting there all day? Or would SDB do it for you for free?…:) After they check out, who will clean the apartment? Check the inventories? Would SDB do it for you for free? And sometimes they check out together with your TV, hairdryer, microwave etc, would you be making the police report? Or would SDB do it for you for free?….:)

@lol

In fact, the concept of service apartment is not new. Leisure Bay used to be one, until it was proven not sustainable, so it’s mostly residential now. Leisure cove is still one, but it’s totally haunted! Oh, the one built by Ideal called Crystal Point or something in Bayan Lepas, totally kaput..:).

Well, in short, if you want this type of property to be maintained well in the long run, you need someone like Banyan Tree to manage the whole property. BUT, Angsana wants a big premium from buyers for putting everything together, so that he’ll get his free hotel….:) So, no matter Angsana or SDB, you’re getting the short end of the stick anyway! There are better prospects elsewhere bro…:)

@lol

In fact, the concept of service apartment is not new. Leisure Bay used to be one, until it was proven not sustainable, so it’s mostly residential now. Leisure cove is still one, but it’s totally run down! Oh, the one built by Ideal called Crystal Point or something in Bayan Lepas, totally kaput..:).

Well, in short, if you want this type of property to be maintained well in the long run, you need someone like Banyan Tree to manage the whole property. BUT, Angsana wants a big premium from buyers for putting everything together, so that he’ll get his free hotel….:) So, no matter Angsana or SDB, you’re getting the short end of the stick anyway! There are better prospects elsewhere bro…:)

During peak seasons there wont be anymore rooms left assuming they all pre booked online. For pre booked stays the owner can always arrange with the management in advance so when the guest arrives they can be led to their rooms by the one of the workers there. If the owner is worried they can then check the guest in by themselves. There are many motels such as lost paradise and chmyes that are practicing this. The owner checks them in and take a deposit that is refundable upon check out. If it is profitable I dont see why the owner doesnt want to employ someone from the management or around that area to get it done on his behalf (rm1k a month). To clean the rooms the owner can employ an indonesian maid for rm12 an hour. Micro management.

Leisure cove and leisure bay are not beachfront. By the sea is located between hard rock hotel and park royal with bora bora and ferringhi gardens in between. It is only 138 units. So I think the appeal might be there but I wont buy at current prices. I am just saying the rental market is there.

Any chance of this type of rental market for ferringhi residence?

@lol

That’s the problem with all these “private service apartments”. There is no predictability in terms of what you’re gonna get when you check in. Normally I wouldn’t mind paying the extra dollars for a reputable hotel brand just to be sure that the pillows and beds are not smelly, toilets and carpets are clean, quality breakfast etc. And knowing this mentality and consciousness , the premium chains are introducing 4-star options (eg. Sheraton -> Four Points, Hilton -> Double Tree etc) to cater to market needs.

Forget about SDB lah, sommo later more competition is coming in (Plenitude is building service suits too, should be managed by 4-Points as well). Super good location, nice beach, near to Gurney and civilization. But not for sale lah….:)

I am just saying we will never know until the project is ready. Everything we discussed so far is just what we assume anyways. You and I could be wrong.

@lol

Well, Plenitude building service suites is already a fact, piling has started.

If you’re talking about investment, always look ahead with your best assumptions. There’s no point in putting your money into something that everyone already knows. So it is imperative to assume scenarios based on best knowledge, but of course, different people have different levels of ability in doing that….:)

I am just saying that nobody knows everything. What you and I think is a bad investment might be a very good investment. I never think I know it all because that is usually when I am proven wrong.

Plentidue’s project is at tg bungah. Again different market.

The big hotels are all located along batu ferringhi. A well established area for tourists. Lets just wait and see once the project is completed before we start jumping into every knows it already conclusions : )

did anyone buy?

btw, the land is leasehold….

WOW! RM1922 PER SQUARE FEET!

Type A : A-07-03
1,169 sq ft
RM2,247,963

Transportation and entertainment in PG is dead. Plus the not so good beaches and not so clean water. Can say Teluk Bahang is too far and nothing there!!! No amenities and entertainment. It can be Tanjug Rhu (but it has clean nice beach and sand), or another Mutiara Beach Resort. Scary looking at the big empty building when I drove passed there last night.