@catwoman
Not much a concern to me rather than time loss due to heavy traffic jam.

That’s why need LRT.

@catwoman
I guess you have not stayed in high rise building next to highway before. Usually the noise can be cancelled or greatly reduce when windows is shut. However, some honks and modified motorcycle race down the highway at night may still be heard. But it is not unbearable. Nowadays, people will turn on air-cond and usually will the windows shut most of the time and air-cond is on. Don’t worry, I had been stayting high up next to highway and more than 15 years and the noise is ok to me. However, you are right with the dust. My advice is installed HEPA dust filter at home, in most part of Penang you need one anyway as all developed area is filled with dust

@Money

It will be such a pity if the windows and doors have to be shut all the time. This area is very breezy, and I really enjoy the morning breeze and sunshine with all windows and doors opened staying in Marinox currently. I guess Marinox will be affected by the traffic noise soon.

I see more pro than con having LRT, Monorails, Expressway than not having any.

What are the chances of getting the keys on CNY 2019?

@filterfren
Need to wait so long?

The New York City Council voted unanimously on Wednesday to significantly restrict Airbnb and other online home rental services, joining a growing movement of cities around the globe in stepping up regulation of the so-called sharing economy.

The bill aims to prevent landlords and tenants from illegally renting out apartments for a few days at a time to tourists, a phenomenon that the city says has aggravated the housing crisis by making short-term rentals more profitable than long-term leases……………..

Read more at :-

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/nyregion/new-york-city-airbnb-crackdown.html

Please contact me as i need to buy Tamarind apartment.

@KEITH LOW

Is tamarind that good?

Hi, I’m a serious buyer for own stay. Please pm me via email: aunthiam@gmail.com

Hi all,
Eveyone talks about the good reputation of the developer in this forum. But not a single person has realized something very crucially missing in their units. You want to know what it is? Here it goes: The ceiling height of each unit is ONLY 8′ 8″. This would make the unit look much smaller than anticipated when you get your keys. I am of the opinion that this shortchange was done at the expense of trying to squeeze in as many units as possible for sale. The lower the ceiling height, the higher the number of units for sale, at a 33 floor maximum height. On top of this, everyone paid at least a 100k extra from the market price prevailing at that time.

Wonder if keys would be handed over during CNY 2019.

Looking to sell 1047 unit at Tower 1 lvl 27. Pm me if serious buyer. Tks. adriel_pang@hotmail.com

1047sft

I’m looking for 700k unit with 2cp. Serious buyer

For Sale 1047sf, at Tower A, 2 c/p Sale 850k , looking serious Buyer

Hi tan,

What is the floor and view? Sea view or partial or pool view?

unit for sale, 1047sqft, very high floor, partial seaview, tower a,
facing jazz hotel, 950k.

@Hongd I’m looking for 700k unit with 2cp. Serious buyer

Hongd

The price you want for a 2 car park is below the minimum purchase price of the ‘lauziest’ unit at Tower A. So ‘Good Luck’ trying to get 700k for 2 car parks! There is no need for you to be a serious buyer.

Urgent sale. 1047ft, high floor, tower a, 930k.

@john

@Regie
You think money is printed or fall down from the sky? So, highly densed 1104 units in total for 1047sqft trying to sell at nearly a million? You must be dreaming still….with that price, I can look for lower densed condo nearer to the middle or south of Penang. Pls. dun “tim” ppl with different remarks from the same person lar…

@itam

Haha….you have every reason to be pissed with these fellas, who bought these units from developer maybe at around 800k +/- depending on unit location and floor. I bought mine around 25th +/- floor tower A at 800k+ unit #8 size 1047sf (Type C). I’m not worried about the density as Quayside has more than 1000 units in there too. The price is definitely on the high side for Tamarind based on today’s market and sentiment. Those who bought for long term investment are ok, while short term speculators will surely find it hard to flip. Finally, don’t compare properties in this area with those in mid-south area. It makes you look like an idiot. In the real world, there’s the wealthy, and there’s the working class. Same goes for residential area, you need to build to cater to different markets, and when it comes to properties, location is the determinant.

what is the rental price shall we as the Owner of The Tamarind expected? can i get 2800-3000 / month if I furnished up my unit 1047sf ? any advise? appreciated.

hardon :
@itam
Haha….you have every reason to be pissed with these fellas, who bought these units from developer maybe at around 800k +/- depending on unit location and floor. I bought mine around 25th +/- floor tower A at 800k+ unit #8 size 1047sf (Type C). I’m not worried about the density as Quayside has more than 1000 units in there too. The price is definitely on the high side for Tamarind based on today’s market and sentiment. Those who bought for long term investment are ok, while short term speculators will surely find it hard to flip. Finally, don’t compare properties in this area with those in mid-south area. It makes you look like an idiot. In the real world, there’s the wealthy, and there’s the working class. Same goes for residential area, you need to build to cater to different markets, and when it comes to properties, location is the determinant.

hey mate, I’m sorry to say that, are you really high on weed? You are not worried about the density of course because your building is Commercial Title. It is going to be Jazz hotel 2, having many hotel operators renting hectic sum of your building in about 300-400 units to form a mini hotel in within tamarind. probably that’s the high side for commercial and you’ll be staying with different tenant or occupant daily if you were to stay there. for me, i would sell away asap. and then again these rich people will complain, form committee and a sign of protest to anti-homestay and etc. stop dreaming. it’s a service apartment and the residence have got the rights to do so. i cna’t believe you compare quayside and tamarind making you look like an idiot. peopel stays in quayside and atleast it is residential. E&O sells quayside at Rm1000 psf and tamarind at rm700 sqft. just another cheaper product with the tag of E&O with mega high density in a building of 7acre land. In the real world, there are wealthy and there is the working class, you are right. but next to you is another giant affordable house that consist 2.5k units which you will share the same access in and out.

@im drug free
Are you sure you are drug free and not on extra weeed? Tamarind is commercial title but under the HDA and JMB can ban homestay. You can check a lot of condo around Penang with commercial title but homestay is totally banned due to JMB. Do some research before commenting, dude!

Pikachu :
@im drug free
Are you sure you are drug free and not on extra weeed? Tamarind is commercial title but under the HDA and JMB can ban homestay. You can check a lot of condo around Penang with commercial title but homestay is totally banned due to JMB. Do some research before commenting, dude!

Are you trying to be funny? Commercial means Commercial. In another words, Komersial. Means you have free rights to exercise any commercial activities and you may also contact developer office and get a confirmation with Black and White that homestay and hotel is not allowed. Please go get your facts rights mate. You will get the answer “er.. that one you have to refer to management in the future” why is it to hard? because they are selling the concept by air BNB as well.

@im drug free
FYI, I have verify with E&O and they confirm homestay are not allowed under HDA. Commercial does not automatically qualified it to allow homestay, you can check on other properties with commercial title around penang and a lot of the JMB/management do not allow homestay at all. Please do some homework before blasting or you are just another dude either high on drug or jealous cause you cannot afford to buy there or miss the boat.

Any details mentioned in S&P prohibiting of homestay.

@phang
Phang, it is a commercial title but not as SOHO, SOVO or SOFO and only valid as residential. It was covered in dmc

Pikachu :
@im drug free
Are you sure you are drug free and not on extra weeed? Tamarind is commercial title but under the HDA and JMB can ban homestay. You can check a lot of condo around Penang with commercial title but homestay is totally banned due to JMB. Do some research before commenting, dude!

I am not vested but this i know – Tamarind is commercial title but since under HDA, it then falls under the provisions of HDA. Homestay or not will NOT be covered in SPA – usually its under house rules..and yes, in Tamarind case, as its commercial title but for residential use, JMB has the power with the endorsement of owners in an AGM to ban homestay or airbnb.

jazz :

Pikachu :
@im drug free
Are you sure you are drug free and not on extra weeed? Tamarind is commercial title but under the HDA and JMB can ban homestay. You can check a lot of condo around Penang with commercial title but homestay is totally banned due to JMB. Do some research before commenting, dude!

I am not vested but this i know – Tamarind is commercial title but since under HDA, it then falls under the provisions of HDA. Homestay or not will NOT be covered in SPA – usually its under house rules..and yes, in Tamarind case, as its commercial title but for residential use, JMB has the power with the endorsement of owners in an AGM to ban homestay or airbnb.

there is a loop hole, if majority of the residence put sign petition to agree for Home Stay or AirBnb, it will still be allowed because it is still under commercial title.

I have seen it happened.

Oh ya, I heard that there is already a group of 300+ units agreed to be Home Stay.

@Vicky
Vicky, don’t bullshit here. It was covered in DMC that homestay are not allowed. Even the first 1 year under developer’s management, the homestay is not allowed cause it is covered in DMC

I am assuming less than a 100 units out of the 1104 units would want to do homestay.

@Vicky
Hi Jasmine, you have seen it happen in Penang or any part of Malaysia? Can you show us which condo or development is that? Please show us some proof ? We are dying to know

baby Jasmine :
@Vicky
Hi Jasmine, you have seen it happen in Penang or any part of Malaysia? Can you show us which condo or development is that? Please show us some proof ? We are dying to know

well , if you have seen ArteS, its happening because its a commercial and it was taken by T+ Hotel to Manage the building.
Theres a link for your reference for Agoda. https://www.agoda.com/arte-s-by-t-hotel_2/hotel/penang-my.html?device=c&network=g&adid=196615783662&rand=5795364582194375302&expid=&adpos=1t1&site_id=1622864&tag=ee50886b-c75a-4600-9bb8-90080fb17bae&url=https://www.agoda.com/arte-s-by-t-hotel_2/hotel/penang-my.html&gclid=Cj0KCQjw9ZDeBRD9ARIsAMbAmoZTCVKHN1o5q5LY8pM8YNJss9hv7p7RnROVQQEqFNE928zJKazon2YaAgEPEALw_wcB

you may take a look. this is happening as 400 units to be managed by T+ Hotel for ArteS that cause the price has been stagnant and reducing.

I belong to the group who is against AirBnB. I watch in puzzle why the property buyers have to fight amongst themselves to decide FINALLY whether AirBnB is allowed in the respective condos. The buyers should and have the rights to know from the moment they sign the S&P whether AirBnB or not! They fault goes to the authority, which is not making the policy crispy clear. The state authority should come out with precise guideline on this, so that there will be no uncertainty for buyers! Isn’t that the purpose for the existence of gov?????

chipi :
I belong to the group who is against AirBnB. I watch in puzzle why the property buyers have to fight amongst themselves to decide FINALLY whether AirBnB is allowed in the respective condos. The buyers should and have the rights to know from the moment they sign the S&P whether AirBnB or not! They fault goes to the authority, which is not making the policy crispy clear. The state authority should come out with precise guideline on this, so that there will be no uncertainty for buyers! Isn’t that the purpose for the existence of gov?????

it has nothing to do with the authority, the authority doesnt have the rights.

if you want absolute protection
Buy residential. if you wanna buy commercial, then take the risk.

then intention is very clear. if you wanna buy for residential stay, then just buy residential.

ever wonder why tamarind is commercial instead of residential?
because commercial title is entitle to built twice the premitted area and doesnt have to build affordable house.

so bear the consequences

@im drug free

To begin with, Arte S is a commercial title under SOHO which is totally different with Tamarind which is under residential. In this case, even the JMB of Arte S cannot do anything since it is a SOHO unit. Basically there are no commercial title with residential (Fall under HDA) in Penang that have given a green light in Penang. You are actually comparing the wrong stuff and try to convince people with wrong idea. I wonder what is your intention in this?

Look at Gurney Park which is of residential title but have a long history of homestay including medical tourist until today. It is still happening even though they won court case. Nothing is guaranteed unless you managed it well.

In my understanding from the stuff, there is bulk buyer club bought the tamarind for airbnb purpose. It’s similar to Tropicana 218 Macalister with commercial title where homestay is permitted.

@penanglang

Don’t worry, our city council is in the process of drawing up strict regulations regarding homestays. As a buyer, if you’re being led to believe that whatever you buy will be homestay or residential, but after which it turns out to be otherwise, keep all the hard evidence. Developers and agents are going to be punished severely.

Heard that federal will impose new tax on homestay in the new budget. Good luck.

@penanglang
Like as per explained, even if the bulk buyer club tried to use for airbnb, they are going to fail miserably cause they signed the DMC which do not allowed AirBnb. So those who bought for Airbnb, you can kiss your plan good bye.

@Vicky

You need about 70% to 75% of the votes to ban the homestay in the AGM. If most of the owners are investors then you will not get the percentage of votes requirement. I own a unit at Penang Times Square. Very tough fight. For more a few years, the true resident here suffered.

You can see different people bring luggages in and out. Swimming pool and gym full of strangers everyday. Home operators forcefully removed the homestay ban banners. Shouting at the management, guards and JMB. Within 2 years from the day of key handover, the number of homestay units grew to more than 50 units. When the phase 2 was completed, the homestay operators started to expand to phase 2 (more than 30 units).

During the AGM , homestay owners tried to get voted into the JMB. They go all out to get proxies for the voting. Once they get the control of the JMB, they will relax the house rules.
Luckly, the non-homestays won the election.

The homestay operators fight back by the tribunal court. Case took more than 1 years. Luckly, the Penang Times Square have residential title. Bomba also don’t approved the homestay because of the residential title.

The residents must be united. Tough road ahead for Tamarind. Good luck

@Ah Chai
It’s ok. As long as there is chances even 0.01%, we try to fight kao kao even for 10 years.

@Ah Chai
The first year, it is under E&O which is the buyer already sign the DMC where they agree they will not turn this to homestay. Even in the event, it handover to JMB, the property fall under HDA which automatically prohibited homestay (Even it is under commercial title). So the rule of law is on the true resident side, no matter what those pesky greedy Airbnb investor do

Very funny, buy Commercial Title building cannot do Commercial activities.

– Pay Commercial Accessment
– Pay Commercial Electricity Bill
– Pay Commercial Maintenance Fees
– Pay Commercial Water Bill.

Did everyone here bought a Commercial Property to pay extra just for own stay @ RM700psf?

@Pikachu
I have call the E&0 sales office. I asked about using the tamarind for airbnb. I was told that it depend on the JMB. So I guess the first AGM to choose the JMB will be like PKR election.

Even with the non-homestay group controling the JMB, the security must be good. If they are not good then you can see the homestay guests going in and out without problem.

Penang Times Square have managed to control the homestay operators. Security are very strict at both phase 1 and 2. No more homestay operators expect some units rented out by the chinese tenant from china. They do bring in a lot of relatives and guests. Once or twice a month. It is ok if they bring in genuine guests. Security are monitoring them. The guests are not allowed to use the gym/internet/sauna/badminton area. Only two guests are allowed per unit. Security guard will monitoring the area thru CCTV. Choose a good security company.

Not like those homestays time. The homestay operators claimed that they are their relatives and friends. They seem to have relatives from all over the world. Arab, africa, russia, usa, europe. Homestays guests scolded the security guards for stopping them. They even showed the security guard and management office the receipt that they paid for the airbnb. They claimed it is their right to use the facilities since they paid for it. They even said the homestay operators told them they can use the facilities. If the homestay guests found the sauna not working, they will scold the management staffs. They act like they are the owners of the apartment.

They even scolded some of the resident owners who keep looking at them when they bring a lot of bags into the lifs. True residents will have to wait for them to go up first

Thought that the electricity and water bill for Tamarind are residential rate? Can anyone confirm?

@Teoh
Teoh, residential rate for electricity and water. Confirmed. Only Assessment is under commercial

@Raichu
Maintenance fee is only at 0.25 psqft. What you mean by commercial ? Paying extra to stay here? Hello, this is Sri Tanjung, RM700 psqft is consider at the lower side, in fact those unit facing the sea are at RM900 psqft. If you think RM700 psqft is high then this is definitely not for you. Go back to Sungai Ara or Relau or maybe even better, at some development over in mainland. Those should be the place suitable for you.

@Teoh
Based on E&0 sales staff, it is still commercial rate. They are trying to applied for residential rate. Don’t know whether successful or not. Call the E&0 Sales office yourself to get the actual info.

@choi
I am not surprised that the MBPP which is in the process of drawing up strict regulations regarding lodging (homestays) will allow the lodging (homestay) for commercial title. I heard they may allow around 180 days per year. Just like in other countries.

Commercial title should have fire sprinkler system along the common corridor of the units. Commercial title are lodging (homestay) ready.

For residential title, there is no fire sprinkler system along the common corridor of the units. There are fire sprinkler at the car park only. This is why Bomba don’t approved residential title for Lodging (homestay) use. To get BOMBA approval for lodging , fire sprinkler system must be installed. Check with the BOMBA if you don’t believe me.

@Ah Chai
which E&O staff do you call to get the answer that it depends on JMB? Can you kindly let us know here? I called them and personally asked them including their higher management and all of them said that it is covered in DMC that homestay are not allowed and this development fall under HDA which homestay are prohibited. Also, electricity and water rate are residential. That is already confirmed.

Are you sure you call E&O to confirm or you just bullshitting here?

@Pikachu

E&O sale office. 048909999. Just call them and ask.

GEORGE TOWN: The Penang Island City Council (MBPP) has continued its efforts in weeding out illegal and unlicensed lodging houses.

In its recent check by officers the council’s Commissioner of Buildings (COB), as well as two MBPP departments – Licensing Department and Building Department – three unit owners in Birch The Plaza Condominium in Datuk Keramat Road were fined RM250 each for operating a business without licence.

Tanjong MP Ng Wei Aik, who was also present during the checks, said the officers knocked on the doors of the eight units that were believed to be available for short-term rent but only guests from three units answered.

“In the first unit, the guests were from Jakarta who were staying for three nights, the second unit was a guest from Kuching, who was also staying for three nights while two women from Belgium were staying in the third unit,” he told a press conference

Ng said there were 417 condominium units at Birch The Plaza and it was found that 50 units were involved in the illegal lodging house business.

“Based on all the information given by the management, the MBPP is going to issue 50 notices to the respective owners.

“MBPP issued RM250 compound to each of the three units where we met the guests. This issue has been haunting MBPP the last two years,” he said.

Ng said MBPP issued the summonses under the 1991 MPPP bylaw for Trade, Business and Industries for the offence of operating a business without licence.

“Errant operators who don’t want to cease operations can be taken to court. On conviction, they can be fined a maximum of up to RM2,000, imprisonment of up to one year, or both.

Ng said only serviced apartments are allowed to operate homestays or short stays.

*****************************************************************

“All residential apartments, condominiums, flats and the gated residential houses are not allowed to carry out these lodging houses business,” he said

*****************************************************************

@Pikachu
Don take it serious
There are a few buyer that try to confuse everyone to get home stay allow
It is confirm residential title with residential electric and water,
Only cukai tanah is commercial but our s&p is under HDA act
So please stop all the discussions about that and stop reply to those bullshit

@Terry
Ya, should have stop it but I can’t believe these ppl like to mislead ppl with all these bullshit. Perhaps they have nothing much to do.

@Pikachu

No, it’s not they have nothing much to do. They could belong to one of these groups :-

(1) They are speculators who bought Tamarind for flipping, but due to slow market, they know it is impossible now. So the next best thing for them is to use it as homestay to help pay for their mortgages.

(2) You have professional companies that help owners run homestay nowadays, so the more homestay units in the market, the more money they make. So they go everywhere encourage people to do homestay.

(3) Developers see this homestay thing as one way to help push their unsold stock, because honestly speaking, you have now more homes in the market than the number required for own stay. So what are you going to do with the balance units?

So who’s at fault now?

(1) Greedy developers
(2) Stupid agents who are willing to do anything developers ask them to
(3) Bad gov policy

i don’t blame you guys being amateur.

under the state law, Commercial means you are allowed to conduct any commercial activities. as simple as that.

HDA act doesn’t protect commercial title building – you may check with KPKT.

HDA only protects Schedule H and Schedule G (Strata or Individual)

seems like you guys dont understand what is HDA.

Do you know whats the commercial rate of accessment comparing to residential? X5 times.

@Pikachu
What is the point if the different between commercial title and residential title is just cukai tanah?

Better get a good lawyer to fight the homestay operators. Group all those non-homestay owners to unite against the homestay operators. Tough road ahead…….

“Ng said only serviced apartments are allowed to operate homestays or short stays.”

Go check the Tamarind property type. It is clearly stated “Service Apartment”……period.

Penangite-2 :
“Ng said only serviced apartments are allowed to operate homestays or short stays.”
Go check the Tamarind property type. It is clearly stated “Service Apartment”……period.

yes, tamarind is under service apartment.

go check OSC portal

http://www.epbt.gov.my/osc/Carian_Proj3.cfm

search for E&O Property

MBPP/OSC/PB10415/18(LB)/102494-1 : KERJA-KERJA TELAH DIJALANKAN BAGI PINDAAN DAN TAMBAHAN KEPADA PELAN BANGUNAN MBPP/OSC/PB(8110)/15(LB) YANG TELAH DILULUSKAN BERTARIKH 1HB DISEMBER 2015 BAGI CADANGAN MEMBINA 2 BLOK PANGSAPURI PERKHIDMATAN (SERVICE APARTMENT) 34 TINGKAT (1,104 UNIT) DENGAN 4 TINGKAT PODIUM TEMPAT LETAK KERETA DAN KEMUDAHAN-KEMUDAHAN LAIN DI ATAS LOT PT 1218, JALAN SERI TANJUNG PINANG 1, SEKSYEN 1, BANDAR TANJUNG PINANG oleh TETUAN E&O PROPERTY (PG) SDN. BHD. di Majlis Bandaraya Pulau Pinang

are you saying service apartment cannot do service apartment?

Hi all,

For your information, The Tamarind is under “Service Apartment” Title.

For any Service Apartment, under the Constitution or Any State Law
it is purely allowed to conduct any commercial activities under “service apartment” title.

If not allowed to do homestay, I won’t pay maintenance fees.

There is no point speculating or making guesses on this issue. The best and the only way to put this to rest is by consulting a lawyer. If the law on this subject is straight forward, so be it. If the law is uncertain, then due process is to be followed through the courts. It’s all dependant on what the agreement and by-laws say. It’s as simple as that!

@BnB
If you don’t pay maintenance fee, you will be blacklisted. Your unit access card and car access will be all blocked.

just confirmed with KOMTAR,

under service apartment can conduct service apartment activities. (including AirBnB or private homestay) without restriction unless rules imposed by the management.

but not subjected to rules that will prohibit or inconvenient owners to conduct any activities.

service apartment is subjected to short stay, hourly stay, monthly stay or yearly stay.

@AnA

OMG!!!!!!!! Gone case lah Tamarind!!!

Exec or service apts?

@AnA

Hourly stay ? —- can use to bring girlfriend/ lover / mistress !!!!!! Hi ! Hi Hi

filterfren :
There is no point speculating or making guesses on this issue. The best and the only way to put this to rest is by consulting a lawyer. If the law on this subject is straight forward, so be it. If the law is uncertain, then due process is to be followed through the courts. It’s all dependant on what the agreement and by-laws say. It’s as simple as that!

my friend here,
MPPP and title is under service apartment.

Residential Property = Cannot do service apartment

Service Apartment title = Cannot do service apartment also???

Ah Chai :
@Pikachu
I have call the E&0 sales office. I asked about using the tamarind for airbnb. I was told that it depend on the JMB. So I guess the first AGM to choose the JMB will be like PKR election.
Even with the non-homestay group controling the JMB, the security must be good. If they are not good then you can see the homestay guests going in and out without problem.
Penang Times Square have managed to control the homestay operators. Security are very strict at both phase 1 and 2. No more homestay operators expect some units rented out by the chinese tenant from china. They do bring in a lot of relatives and guests. Once or twice a month. It is ok if they bring in genuine guests. Security are monitoring them. The guests are not allowed to use the gym/internet/sauna/badminton area. Only two guests are allowed per unit. Security guard will monitoring the area thru CCTV. Choose a good security company.
Not like those homestays time. The homestay operators claimed that they are their relatives and friends. They seem to have relatives from all over the world. Arab, africa, russia, usa, europe. Homestays guests scolded the security guards for stopping them. They even showed the security guard and management office the receipt that they paid for the airbnb. They claimed it is their right to use the facilities since they paid for it. They even said the homestay operators told them they can use the facilities. If the homestay guests found the sauna not working, they will scold the management staffs. They act like they are the owners of the apartment.
They even scolded some of the resident owners who keep looking at them when they bring a lot of bags into the lifs. True residents will have to wait for them to go up first

title under service apartment wor, how? need to ask JMB also?

wow, looks like the fight is already on even before VP or JMB formed.
No homestay vs homestay supporters. It is unavoidable already. 700k property has to suffer this kind of scenario. Sigh.

@filterfren

Buy Tamarind. $$$$ to E&0.
Now need to pay $$$$$ to lawyer to fight homestay.
Why buy commercial title when you want to stay?
Just buy residential title apartment.

My uncle is living at Penang Times Square. Their problem with homestay stay is over. I went swimming at Birch Regency. Only two ladies were swimming on Saturday afternoon. The security is strictly with guests. Need to register. That’s is good for residents safety.I have checked with the security supervisor. I was told that the management have stopped all homestay operators. Their guests are not allowed to go in. No more homestay business. Birch Regency have changed their security company last year. Things have improved with good security guards.

Actually, I wanted to buy Tamarind. Since now that I knowing it is commercial title, I guess no point of buying and suffer later.

My decision is to buy a unit at Birch Regency. I know it is a second hand unit but I know it is well managed.

Guys,

You all sign the DMC when purchase this property. DMC cover that homestay or short period stay is not allowed. Full stop.

Ask your lawyer the content of the DMC. It clearly stated there.

Unless now you can claim like certain ex prime minister that you are not aware of what you sign in the court

@kit
Good choice, Kit. The maintainance fee at Penang Times Square residential condo are the cheapest. Only 20 sen per sqft. Well maintained.

I was considering Penang Times Square before I bought Tamarind for my own stay. I was scared of the noise from both of the construction next to it . But the construction are near completion.

Now I am thinking of not staying at Tamarind if the homestay business expand to Tamarind. I may consider to use my unit at Tamarind for homestay business. I heard good money.

@johntan
Luckily you prefer Penang time square
Cause is totally two different standard
Good luck to you
We don want to be your neighbors

@Funny
@Funny

Hahahaha… I liked this comment of a certain ex-PM claiming not aware of what he’s doing!

Still tak habis tak habis with the DMC.

Title already mention “Service Apartment”

Title -> DMC

Short-term homestays and long-term service apartment leasing are both subset of “service apartment”, but mutually exclusive. Short-term can be defined as anything less than 6 months, while long-term leasing can be more than 6 months. So in the end if you guys decide to go to court, here’s what you will get – since this is a service apartment, and it is explicitly mentioned in the DMC that short-term homestay is not allowed, therefore, long-term leasing more than 6 months that comes with full service provided will be allowed, while anything less than 6 months will be prohibited. WTF!!!!! Hahaha….

21 pages of repetitive posts and promotions by Tamarind Sales agent to push their sales…Smart

@vivien

DMC can be changed.

During the AGM/EGM, we can put it to vote. Need 75% of the votes to approve it.

I am a buyer who bought Tamarind for investment. I will be renting my unit out thru airbnb.

Most of the Tamarind buyers are investors like me. I know that Tamarind is commercial . That is one of the reason I bought it. I am looking for other owners who are investors like me. Hopefully we can work together. Homestays business can bring a lot of $$$. I got one unit at maritime. Usually fully booked. That is why I am expanding to Tamarind. Homestay guests love new apartment.

@Tamarind Investor
Hahah, the management already spell out A BIG No for homestay and cover by DMC, so at least first year, you can’t do it. Then 2nd year onward, you need to get 75% of votes to overturn the DMC. ( super highly unlikely to get that). So bye bye to your investment. Better sell it then

@DMC
Who told you title>DMC? Title is just a title, there are a lot of commercial title that do not allow homestay and has successfully done that. You can check it out. Stupid comment

For Long Rent around RM 1800 – RM 2500 /mth
For Short Rent RM 250 – RM 280 / day if rent out 15 days = @ RM 4000/mth

@Tamarind Investor

Yeh…when some one buy commercial property, they should know / expect commercial property is able to use to run for business and approved by council since we have to pay very high cukai pintu for commercial unit vs low amount for resident title.

That is very unreasonable from those selfish ppl who buy commercial property for own stay but not allow others to use for business purpose, just like we buy a lorry but not allow to use for business purpose and only can be used as family car?

@Tan SH

SH, can we get resident title assessment rate from MBPP if we manage to change DMC in AGM/EGM? or we still need to pay commercial rate as current?

Land is commercial, try changing that

@Tamarind Investor

True, we should try to buy a shoplot at a shopping mall and turn it to our home. Then I will try to change it to residential title !!!!! GOOD IDEA.

@Tan

My maritime apartment is bring me more than RM 4000 per month. Year end fully booked until after 1 Jan. CNY also fully booked.

My advise to other owner who want to stay – do homestay and you can using the profit to buy another apartment at a truly RESIDENTIAL apartment to stay. Be smart.

@Tamarind Investor

Owner can rent a unit just beside their own unit for own stay. Convert their own unit become home stay. Home stay income should be able to cover rental + housing loan + maintenance fees.
No need to worry about the housing loan during jobless.

yeah those buyer who wants to buy for their own stay doesnt have enough budget to buy Quayside / Andaman, die die come and buy Tamarind (Cheaper) units with commercial title

then dont let ppl do commercial businesses as the title is already stated “Service Apartment”

there are 1100 units there, and more than 700 ready to do AirBnB. soon it will become

Tamarind Resort Hotel

More and more people support homestay.

hahaha ……resident vs homestay…. grab your popcorn n see who is the winner. lets see 2019

Don’t worry, Maritime value frm @550k up to now around 1.1M – 1.2M . Long rent frm 2k up to now 5k just bcos homestay help to goreng up

commercial is for doing business lah
DMC is Da Ma Chai. Ha! Ha!

@PT Lim
Good Idea. I may stay at Tamarind and rent a few units there. I can tend give the best service to my homestay guests. For there, I can expand to more units if business get better.

Do you all notice the Jazz hotel is going to operate soon
What is the selling point of AirBNB compare with the hotel
You are going to have competitive price with them

pls attract more tourists to straits quay dead mall

haha. ok. Let those homestay syok sendiri lar. They think just because it is commercial title, they can do homestay and try to ignore the DMC ( hehe, let’s see how they argue when their signature was clearly on the DMC and they agreed to NO homestay on the DMC with their nice signature). Furthermore, we already know that mostly buy it for own stay and only a few buy it for homestay ( oh ya, please do not use multiple nickname to self answer and self syok sendiri here )

@Selfish Owner
1100 unit there ?? Wow !! So many unit!! Like low cost project. Very busy in the future. People moving up and down the lifs.

@chee kong

True. 1100 units ! Too many units. It will be pack. This is why the title is commercial. More investor can buy and rent it for short term.

You can not find so many owners buying it for their own stay. bnb is very popular now just like Grab.

from what I can see above
This is not owner vs investor
Is owner vs other developers
The investor will keep quiet and do home stay, they will not make noise
This is very clear that other developers want to condemn the project
Come on
Only a few project that around this area, we can easily guess which one la

I sincerely hope the JMB will ban the homestay completely. All investors previously bought for Airbnb purpose and not own stay will cheap sell their unit to cut loss fast. Better than loss more later on.

@James
Yes, James. Most probably one developer creating multiple accounts just to create the “Fear Factor”. Most homestay investors will try to be discreet as they know they signed the DMC which E&O make sure that their lawyer conveyed the message to each of their buyer that homestay is strictly not allowed. They know they are at the losing side, so no point trying to argue over a forum board.

@Funny

Well, actually there is a significant number of buyers who bought for quick flip. But in this slow market, they will have no choice but to sell cheap, or hang on to it and AbnB the units to sustain cash flow. Plus, professional homestay operators have much to gain if they can convince owners to change house rules to allow homestay. But for owner occupiers, don’t worry, there are many tricks to “punish” these homestay operators. It’s like a guerrilla warfare. You can launch a sneak attack as and when you identify someone doing homestay, like turning off their water supply, unplug their TNB fuse, block card access etc. Have fun!

The fear factor will not work well here becauseAirBnB can be happened to any other projects, not only to The Tamarind. If other projects can control it, The Tamarind sure can control it. If they can’t, not necessary The Tamarind can’t. Cheers.

Search from google……A serviced apartment (also known as a service apartment or an extended stay apartment) is a fully furnished apartment available for short-term or long-term stay, providing hotel-like amenities such as room service, house keeping, a fitness center, a laundry room, and a rec room.

MBPP – Garispanduan.

2.0 Definasi Pangsapuri Perkhidmatan (Service Apartment)

2.1 Untuk tujuan garispanduan ini, definasi ‘service apartment’
diklasifikasi sebagai berikut:

– unit kediaman yang boleh dijualkan sebagai unit individu (di bawah
geran pemilik strata) tetapi tidak diduduki seterus-terusnya oleh
pemilik atau penyewa

– disewakan atas kadar harian, berdasarkan setiap hari atau pun
beberapa hari, selalunya kepada pencuti-pencuti untuk tujuan
berehat (holidaymakers)

Chan JT :
MBPP – Garispanduan.
2.0 Definasi Pangsapuri Perkhidmatan (Service Apartment)
2.1 Untuk tujuan garispanduan ini, definasi ‘service apartment’
diklasifikasi sebagai berikut:
– unit kediaman yang boleh dijualkan sebagai unit individu (di bawah
geran pemilik strata) tetapi tidak diduduki seterus-terusnya oleh
pemilik atau penyewa
– disewakan atas kadar harian, berdasarkan setiap hari atau pun
beberapa hari, selalunya kepada pencuti-pencuti untuk tujuan
berehat (holidaymakers)

aiduh, finally some people talk about some sense, we paid high maintenance fees and high accessment rate. let us do commercial lah. title under service apartment u know?

residential title Andaman ppl also do AirBnB lah :
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/1071605?location=Seri%20Tanjung%20Pinang%2C%20Tanjung%20Tokong%2C%20Malaysia&adults=3&children=0&infants=0&check_in=2018-11-30&check_out=2018-12-06&search_id=1826832b-40a9-4aa3-86a8-0a886001bbaa&federated_search_id=5b9fd763-8bdb-4270-84a3-362d3726facd

commercial title cannot do?

@law

@Chan JT
Untuk tujuan garispanduan ini, definasi ‘service apartment’
diklasifikasi sebagai berikut:
– unit kediaman yang boleh dijualkan sebagai unit individu (di bawah
geran pemilik strata) tetapi tidak diduduki seterus-terusnya oleh
pemilik atau penyewa
– disewakan atas kadar harian, berdasarkan setiap hari atau pun
beberapa hari, selalunya kepada pencuti-pencuti untuk tujuan
berehat (holidaymakers)
– biasanya mempunyai perkhidmatan-perkhidmatan ancilliari
(ancilliary services facilities) seperti restoran/kantin, kedai-kedai,
arked-arked, dobi, kemudahan sukan dan sebagainya yang
biasanya diperlukan oleh penyewa
– diuruskan sebagai hotel oleh satu pihak pengurusan

You did not copy the whole thing It is clearly written, “DIURUSKAN SEBAGAI HOTEL OLEH SATU PIHAK PENGURUSAN” in this case, not with Tamarind. It is clearly for residential usage

Also, for Tamarind, the maintenance is high? It is normal at this age, if you think that is expensive, you better take a flat or low cost apartment.

after 1 month this blog still tak habis habis with service apartment topic

seriously if wanna buy Service apartment title should be aware of the risk la..

if got money pls go buy andaman

Can you believe the bedroom windows of this project are so small?????

Like low cost flat. High end apartment have big windows. Developer want to save money from glass. Glass are expensive

Actually, I am a first time house buyer. I chose Tamarind because it is built on one of the best piece of lands. I believe there are quite a lot of first time house buyers here. I might be wrong. I am so excited to see the progress and somehow, I LOVE IT! A lot of people might despise my property choice here but really it all depends on personal choice isn’t it?

wow.. like living in prison cell.

@Vincent

There is the guide line for ventilation.
if the window is too small, MBPP Jbt. Bangunan
will not approved. The window size is depend
to the room size.

@Tan HC
Yes, expensive prison. Paid money to be in prison cell !!!!!

JOHN could have rented out his high-rise residential unit in Cheras for RM1,500, but that would not cover his monthly instalment of RM2,500.

He turned to Airbnb, charging RM240 a night. The unit can accommodate eight, 12 would be a squeeze but he has done it. John operates his unit like a hotel; guests leave at noon and the next group “checks in” between 2pm and 4pm. He has hired a property agent to look after the unit. He needs to keep that schedule 15 days a month in order to get RM3,600.

Income generator: Malaysians are increasingly recognising the benefits of home sharing through turning their biggest assets – their property – into income generators to help ease cost of living.
Read more at https://www.thestar.com.my/business/business-news/2018/12/01/is-airbnb-impacting-the-hotel-industry/#6QI6l2YW254gbjzR.99

Welcome to Tamarind Serviced Apartments, an indulgent stay-away from home in Penang, Pearl of the Orient. Strategically located in Tanjong Tokong and conveniently close to Gurney Drive and Straits Quay, Tamarind Serviced Apartments cater for the working professionals, expatriates, even the families on holiday, friend gatherings, marriage ceremonies and special occasions. With fully-furnished apartment units available for rent and a diversity of amenities to enjoy, residents can select for long, medium or short-term stays.

Ok can

@Gan

Any idea when is the handover date ?

How was the prison doing?

@Jordan Lee

OC soon.

@Vincent
if 1.5 ft x 3.5 ft window is really too small for the bedroom
u can complaint to COB but could be a nightmare for
developer if u win the case….

@Jordan Lee
Owner of prison can get the keys to their cell after chinese new year 2019. After CNY 2019, you can see a lot of inmates there.

@CK

Folks,
Tamarind, the award-winning best condo on the island, is set to be ready for move-in only about a week before the chun-chun date of the end of the full four (4) year period.

i better buy 2 units i-santorini.

2 units x 850 sqft = 1700sqft (2 units rental RM1200 x 2 = RM2400)

Total purchase price = RM850k

tamarind 1ksqft RM850sqft.

1700 sqft vs 1k sqft which one better.

and somemore tamarind not sure can rent how much. because only 1k sqft.

cannot do airBnB somemore

@santoniri
Prison cost RM850 sqft ? I don’t know how much Dato Keramat Prison will cost. Better stay in Dato Keramat Prison.

The Tamarind looks almost done already and it looks beautiful. The lush landscaping and modern contemporary feature walls made out of red bricks that protrudes in and out giving it character. You can tell this project is of quality. Not to mention the facilities. Wait till you collect your keys.

To all the people saying negative comments or is hard selling isantorini. I am also an owner of isantorini. I can only say you can’t compare both projects. One is branded and one is of a lower brand. You can tell by the finishing and material they use. What is there to compare? Just accept both projects are different. The more you comment it just makes you look like a sour grape and a desperate person. People can tell once they collect the keys and view the units and the facilities.

I also don’t know why needs to give negative comments here. If you do not like this project, it is absolutely fine that you didn’t go and buy it. Remember what you say represented what you are.

@Vincent

Accept it or not, 98% sold which also means buyers accepted it when they saw the show unit.

santoniri :
i better buy 2 units i-santorini.
2 units x 850 sqft = 1700sqft (2 units rental RM1200 x 2 = RM2400)
Total purchase price = RM850k
tamarind 1ksqft RM850sqft.
1700 sqft vs 1k sqft which one better.
and somemore tamarind not sure can rent how much. because only 1k sqft.
cannot do airBnB somemore

Buy 2 I Santorini doesn’t make it better.

Government restriction which does not allow buyers to sell for the first 10 years.

To sell back, the buyer must be eligible
The buyer will also not be stupid to buy an RM500k unit as affordable home ranges from 350K-400k if buying a new unit.
Thus, affordable home price is not for appreciation.

If the property cannot appreciate then Tamarind will be a good buy. Since 2005 E&O Properties had appreciated 100%-300%. There is a better chance for appreciation in Tamarind than any affordable home or I Santorini.

The next is that affordable home is not for rental is for own stay like LMC.

Recently State Housing is very strict.

So if you cannot make profit from capital appreciation and if you cannot rent then might as well buy Tamarind

The Tamarind, eagerly awaited is making an appearance

I-Santonni –
Total Units : 2,155

Tamarind –
Total Units: 1,104

The Brezza –
Total Unit(S)
312

Marinox –
Total Units : 301

Jazz residence – 30-storey Jazz Hotel with 226 rooms and a 45-storey Jazz Residence serviced suites.

3872 units (without Jazz residence figures) by next year !!!!!!

Traffic jam !!

@Gan
Gan, I think you worry too much..ppl who can afford the property at this area is either not working, working overseas or work on their own time…so maybe less than 15% of the residents is facing traffic jam issue only…

@Conair99

true.. we need rich people to sustain the soft property market..

@Gan

The subsale price will not be good as so many units waiting for sale.

@kk

Rental price will not be good too. First few units who are ready for rental will fetch good price as there are still no competition yet. After 1 year, you will see more and more units ready for rent. All will be fighting… Price will go down.

@Goh

True. Over supply of Tamarind units. Owner can put their selling price at RM 2 mil & 3 mil. Will there be so many buyers will so much $$$$.

As for rental, more and more units will be renovated and owners will want to rent it out for higher price. Will there be some many tenants? Most local tenants only can pay under RM 2000. There are so many apartments in penang. The best way for owners to get $$$ is to rent it out under Airbnb.

For the first year, you can see Tamarind owners targeting for long term rental. Not many units renovated. When more and more owners get ready their unit to be rented out, you can see the rental price dropping…. The best way is still Airbnb for apartment with over 1000 units…..

When Tower A was first launched the response was overwhelming mainly due to its location covered with a reputable developer despite property market situation wasn’t encouraging.Those who bought for own stay no issue at all.Just view from outside now the building structure looks solid and impressive.The internal part is left to be seen but we should find out soon.Tower A should get the keys first before May next year.

Hello, I have a unit on floor 29 Tower A

I was wondering if the “33 floors” are inclusive of the carpark. Or just 33 floors of property to be purchased

558 units divided by 19 ( units/floor ) = 29.5 floors. So would that mean floor 30 is the highest?

Thanks for your input

Heard that The Tamarind already get CCC, am i right ?

The Tamarind CCC already obtained !!

Yes, great New Year news for Tamarind purchasers.Tower A buyers are collecting their keys now provided settling all their dues.

Anyone received letter to collect keys? I have not.

Sherry, CCC obtained but no VP yet

some owner had received VP letter. for those who lake loan, once bank release payment, can arrange get the key already. for cash buyer, once u fully paid, u can arrange get key.

Unit handover kit and keys started. Quality looks good.

is it true that owner can start to collect keys?
any whatapps or owner group for Tamarind buyer?
appreciate to share it.
thanks.

Has anyone received their keys yet?

The lobby and facilities is nice.

Just can’t accept the tiny windows in the bedrooms. There’s no view at all in the bedrooms and it’s so dark.

What a designer!!!

Don’t stay in bedroom, stay in living room. Bedroom is for sleeping, should be dark.

@EO
EO must be the designer so angry!

@EO
If follow your logic… bedroom no need windows la, like prison….LOL

@monchichi

Hahahaha….that’s a good one!!

If follow EO’s logic, then the desgin of all other condos that having big windows are wrong. Some most expensive condos are totally wrong to have balcony or big window that reach the floor in their bedrooms.

can know what is their handover process?

lower aircon bills with small windows

save on curtain too.

Y need curtains

Does anyone know about the legal fees for provided by E&O? Will E&O offer third-party lawyer representing the right of puchaser in the deal? Can purchasers occupy their own lawyers to deal with Vendor’s lawyers instead of using the developer’s official lawyer to solve out legal matters for the purchasers?

Ask eno why ask at forum here

Because E&O answered that they pay the legal fees but wouldn’t provide a lawyer representing the purchaser. It is cunning to say providing legal fees but without offering a lawyer to the purchaser to handle the transaction. Is it common practice to do it by developers in Malaysia?

Did any buyers here have the same concern or problem without lawyer representing you to handle the transaction? It is quite risky and vulnerable when some legal issues come up as a buyer, isn’t it? Can anyone suggest an appropriate way to resolve the problem?

@TrueMan
Its a common practice. The FREE legal fees usually promoted by developers are only for their panel lawyers. You can engage your own lawyers but it will cost you. If your house is under residential title or/and under HDA, you don’t have to worry so much because the SPA you are signing is more or less standard (Schedule G or H). It simply means you are protected by the law under HDA regardless you are represented or not.

For example the period for vacant possession under Schedule H is 36 months. This is standard for all projects. It means by 3 years from the day you sign your SPA, if the developers don’t give you the keys to your house, they will have to pay compensation to you. All these are clearly stated in the standardized SPA by the government, so be rest assured that you are protected. Of course there are exceptions here and there, but that would be out of context of our discussion.

Pool view means facing directly to Block B’s units

This project is not worth it. Subpar and poorly designed

@Ken
So what is the problem with the block b facing sea even with the road building in front? Basically if you are high rise, you do no notice the road

@Funny

You don’t see the road, but you hear it, and it will be loud, not forgetting the dust.

Lets be realistic. Buying a condo is a dream but it comes with a price. Most important is your budget, location and pricing. Priority is location, sea view or no view so be it.

There are other apartments better than this one, the units here are too crammed and stuffy

@Woon

Like which “other apartments”? You cant just talk only, must name examples.

noise travels up, dust settles,

THERE ARE ALOT OF SALTY NON-OWNERS HERE

Let me give you my experience as i take into account both views
( I bought a unit for 750k and sold it off for about 830k )

TLDR : I made a mistake!

1. After purchasing I had alot of doubts, one being the power plant and the view etc etc hence I decided to call my project off and sell it at a slightly premium price
2. I recently viewed the apartment I sold and i realised i made a HUGE mistake.
3. E and O delivered arguably the BEST apartments at this price point in Penang/Northern Malaysia
4. Downsides : Windows make the apartment feel smaller than it actually is
5. Pros : EVERYTHING ELSE. WOW! Workmanship is amazing. The rental yield for a furnished unit it upwards of 3.2k now.

My final words to owners : be proud, you made a good financial investment
My final words to non-owners ( like me ) : Stop being salty and go find another apartment to invest in

@AndrewZ

I am one of the owner and I bought Type A Unit B with unblocked sea view, but I have yet to see the unit as block B is not ready yet. Can you elaborate more on item 3? Why you said it is the BEST?
5. Why everything else is WOW? Where do you get the rental yield on this? For Type A unit B with unblocked sea view, what will be the rental should be?

@AndrewZ

You are overselling the project

Can anyone who has gotten the keys share the following:
are the bedrooms besides the master room really very dark?
What are the defects that we need to pay attention to?
What brand of air-con was provided?
What is the actual ceiling height?

I bought a type C unit on 32 floor of tower B right next to type B facing pool/seaview.

thank you for sharing.

Turn on the lights!!!

Workmanship is amazing, cleaning is excellent even can sleep at corridor, 5 star landscaping

Great. I am keeping mine as long term investment. Won’t get a good price even want to sell now.

The main contractor for Tamarind, Kerjaya Prospek, did a good job. It is a Bursa listed main-con from KL. There is another project being planned in this area by another developer (not E&O) which will be built by Kerjaya Prospek too. Unit size ~900sf, price ~ RM 650k, scheduled for soft launch around end of this year.

is the small windows is the same when owner view the show unit? just curious why complain now when there is a show unit to view.. and if current windows is smaller than show unit i think they can just make complain right?

@Ken
Ken, you are obviously a salty non-owner.

Ya, agree, i think the internal area is dark because windows are too small. I actually queried the E&O salesgirl before i purchased, and she told me because the show unit was located on ground floor, thats why dark. So she persuaded me to buy a high-floor unit, for which I paid a hefty price, but still dark. Like that how? Can sue or not?

By the way, can we ask the managment to turn on all lights in the corridor no matter day or night? Since they are already running the aircond at the gym all the time, why cant they do the same with the corridor lights? Very eerie lah. I heard there were 2 fatal incidents during construction in Blk A.

Oh no. dun tell me corridor also dark dark.

Yes the bedrooms are quite dark even during daytime, and because the small windows are part of the overall facade I don’t think you are allowed to make it bigger

hi Angry, you staying in which unit? mind to share? I did ask them about fatal accident and they told me can check at gov off on industrial accident then will know got or not.. seem like u r purposely creating story that tarnish the reputation of E&O and u may get sue by them.. beware.. fake news is dangerous nowadays and u may get yourself into trouble..you can be salty but dont tarnish the reputation of developer and Tamarind or else owner will report u as well.

Kanina siao meh Angry, turn on light 24 hours???? Comersial title ler this one, elektric mah si peh expensive????

@Fen

You got your point but don’t take this forum comments so seriously because >80% of current 4213 comments here are sour grapes la.

Dark, turn on lights!
Sleep in corridor? Ok
What else to complain?
Spooky? Too bad.

Look at the small bedroom windows!!! I don’t believe anybody would accept it.

Do you live inside the unit or living at the swimming pool?

all dark dark!! feel something strange, so SCARE………
Especially at night & sleeping time can hear some noise coming out from your unit rooms, HAHAHA ………

the electricity and PBA is residential.

guys, you can ignore the trolls lar. Most of them are just sour grape that cannot afford any unit there or already miss the boat.I just went and view the unit. Excellent workmanship and the landscape is one of the best I have seen(comparable to quayside, smaller but quality is same if not better). The so called “small window” is actually not small lar, just right for me. Don’t listen to them lar, just arrange with any of agents that have access and view to believe. Why bother listening to them when you can see it yourself.