One voice against rates
Unhappy lot: Residents of One World and One Sky condominium posing for a group picture in front of their commercial units in Bayan Baru, Penang.
RESIDENTS of the One World and One Sky condominium blocks in Bayan Baru, Penang, are disputing the annual property value (APV) fixed for their units by the Penang Municipal Council (MPPP).
One World chairman Brandon Oon, representing the owners of all 538 units of both blocks, said the APV of their units were very high compared to some other commercial units in the municipality.
Citing a commercial centre in Bukit Jambul as example, he said the APV there was just RM3,100 for a 730sq ft unit while theirs were between RM22,800 and RM28,000 for units which are from 1,160sq ft to 1,450sq ft in size.
Oon said the owners understood that their condominium units were classified as commercial units in a small-office-home-office (SOHO) development as the contracts they signed stated so.
He said they were willing to pay the assessment rates for such units but felt that the APV was unjustified.
“When our appeal to reduce the assessment rate was rejected, the only reason MPPP gave was that our homes are commercial units. We are looking forward to have a dialogue session with MPPP to get an explanation why the APV for our units are so high,” he told a press conference at the One World community hall yesterday.
Oon said the assessment rates fixed by the MPPP for their units were between RM2,350 and RM2,884.
Consumers Association of Penang (CAP) head of complaints Ravinder Singh, who was present, said the questions raised by the residents were valid.
MPPP Financial Management Committee alternate chairman Joseph Ng Soon Siang said he believed the residents would write in an official letter to the council for a dialogue session to review their case.
“We will look into the matter if we receive any letter. I must discuss with my colleagues before deciding on the issue as previously we had a dialogue session with them on Feb 14,” he said when contacted yesterday.
The council had, on March 27, announced that the appeal by the condominium residents to reduce their assessment rates had been rejected.
Source: StarProperty.my
residential unit cant be used as hotel/homestay purpose, that y APV is lower.
commertial unit can be used for hotel purpose such as, B-suite, 218 macalister hotel block, krystal suite & etc, thus the APV is higher, the value by MPPP is certainly correct by referring to the latest new commertial rental in the same area. you shouldn’t compare a 10 year property value with new property value. for example, u cannot expect a 2nd hand car value is same with new car value, although is same car model.
if 1world/1sky commertial unit assessment can be lower, then the shop lot nearby and suntech commertial unit also can ask for lower assessment rate, just tell MPPP they use for own stay, this is common sense, y those ppl buy commertial unit, but stil want to argue on the commertial avp value. sure commertial avp is higher.
whether u let it vacant, rent out at 1k, rent out at 1.5k, is ur own preference. u cannot expect MPPP to give the AVP based on the rental u get.
@tt
If i’m not mistaken, each 1 world condo unit has the green “KELUAR” sign at their main entrance when OC obtained . This is one the sign that these units are build according to commercial building regulation.
Totally Agree!
Suddenly everyone who are not owners of 1world 1sky became an expert on this issue since last Friday. I have only 1word for them….busybody.
Agreed, expert. It could be some representative of MPPP inside here try to convice the public to trust them that they did a right thing. if this is true, maybe they are free until got nothing to do. To all dear friends comments that 1sky and 1world should accept this fact, i just want to tell you, you will learn what is so called ‘fair’ in next year, 1 million plus from these 2 blocks only is not enough to make Penang become most expensive city. They are going for metrics, going for revenue.
Dear all 1sky & 1 world owners, if we win this battle, the rest have to thanks us escape them from high tax. If we loose this battle, next year they will see the truth and learn the true meaning of ‘FAIR” & ‘TRANSPARENT”-our dear MPPP BIG slogan!
this site is attracting so many comments…showing people are interested, keboh also…but not sure anyone start to worry….why worry…we have the best goverment to take care our rakyat!! We got big hero mah….protect us always! 8 months to go….stay cool!! maybe second half they already want to revise!!
@Durian
Big “Keluar” sign at the main entrance? No doubt these units with 3 meeting rooms are designed for business.
Actually this forum itself could be one of the inputs to state as rakyat voices in this matter. I m surprise many in support of State.
Basically i m looking in this issue in term of state revenue and expenses, basically acct stuffs….
Do we hv any REAL QUALIFIED lawyer here?
i thought the black & white is more powerful?
Have any similar precedent case taken place and who was the winner?
in none, Put political pressure aside, Who have better edge in the eye of law?
They are not supporting state but just want to see the owner in suffer. If the rate hike across all the the state you expect they are still supporting. Their respond may be even more aggressive!!!
Let’s wait for the official answer from MPPP.
Increase in assessment fees, let’s see who will make noise first. Real resident or investor? A genuine resident or those who are holding 5-6 units of properties? think think
@Pg
can bo?
Worst case stand to lose (assumed 500 future votes, could be even less as many my friends still in Kampung voting) or lose whole state if increase across the state?
For those investors they less in pain as they have earned a lot during past few years and they are not holding the property for very long period
@C
The state has announced that they will revise the assessmenr rate next year and the exercise has started and distributed the survey form to them since last few mth. Hike in water tariff also on going lets see…
Just suck it up and pay la.. Buy already now dont want pay.
Just like want to speed and when kena saman complaint expensive and dont want pay.
@c
I do not see anything wrong with OWOS assessment rate, but that doesn’t mean I am siding with the state. I don’t take sides (neither do a lot of other people). I look at reasoning.
You bought a 3000cc car, they charge you 3000cc road tax. Just because you install a speed limiter so that you don’t go faster than 40km/hr, that doesn’t mean you are entitled for a reduced road tax. Is it so difficult to understand that reasoning?
So, OWOS owners claim even for commercial rates, it shouldn’t be RM20+k a year. But data shows otherwise. A quick survey at the nearest commercial office lots (Suntech) shows that rental is about RM1500/month for 600sqft units. So with OWOS size, RM20+k sounds about right (in fact a little bit on the low side). So what’s the freaking hoohaa??
Do you have a logical reasoning to dispute my reasoning, apart from taking sides, black heart, sadist etc, before I ask you to go home, and j3rk yourself off…..:)
agree with Jk and GongKia….u guys are realistics! Cheers bro!
Lai lai ki ki, it smells similar points and arguments, but said by different people.
Don’t forget that our CM is an accountant, the Exco also got lawyers. The numbers seems do not side the owners.
Seems this forum, have many FTZ people,…. can any lawyer give some “opinion” or past case as reference?
Or if have lawyer friends please invite in here.
I already “Sien” till want to vomit with same stuff being “goreng” so many times.
@c
Bro, dont vomit ppl’s face. Later kena sue then you complaint too expensive and dont want pay..
GST will also charge residential properties with commercial title
Another -1 for own stay buyers when GST priced in…
yes, MPPP is very right, go and find mudah.my owos can be rented out around RM1900, they just calculated a bit higher only mah, why make noise? next year, when all residential condo and houses are charging at mudah.my display rate, haha…u will say that is for the good for Penang development, all should happily pay! hopefully all owos owners stay healthy, give up this case also never mind, when all penang are charging to market rental rate accordingly, fairly, and evenly, we will cheer Penang is the best city to stay!! So no point keep on complaining liao!! no one will say good thing about us!We will see fair MPPP in near future!! See you all on the top!!yet…they will say..they try to scare us…dun believe them….haha…thank you thank you i have let go my emotion liao
c, nvmlah…take all these as joke, at least surprisingly this issue get a lot of attention…yes it’s paintful to pay, but time will tell the truth..their appetide won’t stop at owos, their KPI target wont be that low! 1 million cannot do much thing to this city lah…maybe it’s huge figure to us, kacang engineers…but to them it’s merely 1%…when mudah.my database been fully utilized, maybe someone will say boycot mudah.my haha…people will choose to believe what they want to believe..it’s common. it will be very odd if suddenly all of them said MPPP charged too high and not reasonable! cannot play with kaya authority one, sure it will be loose case! everything got pro n cons one, this wont be totally bad thing, sure got learning from it! those who laugh now hopefully can laugh until end…maybe can laugh only few more months!!
Hi cs, I sympathize with your situation. This is very unfair. Are you staying there yourself? How big is your unit?
@Expert
Mr Expert, progressive people learn from constructive feedback. Ignorant people will always be defensive. If my inputs are not valid, you should challenge point by point. Lastly, everyone who comes to read and give inputs here are “busybody”. Or maybe an expert people like you can educate the rest of us better.
@Flipper
base on what ground u commented that APV between commercial and residential is different?
is the definition stated clearly in MPPP site?
@None
WahLauEh!!
Stop j3rking yourself during class. Pay attention!!!….:D
@GongKia
i didnt jerk during class. tell u a secret, i jerk on ur mom’s face….
shxx, maybe ur mom swallow and u r my fuxxing son.
so stop fooling ard with ur dad….
@None
Bet you did that to your mum since you are so familiar… Incest.. Hehehe.
Dont talk cock here. Join me in shineville park condo. The best cemetery home u’ll ever find!
@Jk
It’s ok. There’s no need to get upset. Haha….that must have reminded him of something he did last time, and straight away his mom came to his mind.
@None
I won’t mention that “j” word to you again next time, I didn’t know that about your mom before. My bad. So I was just trying to say you have not been paying attention to what people had been explaining in the comments, about the difference between commercial and residential. Peace Bro!
@None
from MPPP website:
2.0 Annual Value (*also known as annual property value)
The annual value of a holding, as defined in Section 2 of the Local Government Act, 1976, is the ESTIMATED ANNUAL RENT at which the holding might reasonably be expected to let with the owner paying the cost of repair, insurance and other expenses necessary for the maintenance of the holding.
Now, APV for residential and commercial is different because commercial property usually can be rented out higher compare to residential. For example a 500sqft residential flat compare to a 500sqft shop/office in QB mall or Suntec. Surely the rental for shop is higher. That is why the APV for commercial title is always higher.
This APV can go up or go down across time due to economic situation and etc. But you can appeal to MPPP to reduce the rate when your APV drops. The OWOS committee should appeal & work with MPPP to reduce the APV. But never blame MPPP for the current situation because they are doing the APV calculation based on the right set of guidelines. If the state gov can convert your title from commercial to residential then thank god and count yourself lucky but I doubt so because some purchasers might really want to do business with their units and once it is converted to residential title, they will be in violation of local laws which prohibit running any business on residential units.
Hope this helps your understanding. To the rest, no need name bashing and etc. Put your sincere thoughts and learn together. You might buy more properties in future. So, learn from current issue and do better for next time.
@gongkia
Hypocrite. Wanna be Nobel yet still wanna mention abt my mum. What I try to clarify here is, whatever u guys mentioned b4 r based on assumption. My understanding from MPPP site is APV = estimated annual rental ( applies to commercial and residential). Then assessment fee for commercial is APV x 10.3perct, and residential is APV x 7.5 perct. So I m requesting if anyone can direct me to the correct site so that I can confirm that APV calculation between commercial and residential r difference. By the way, as I mentioned b4, I dun own 1 sky or world… Peace dude
@ flipper
Great. So base on ur understanding, is it fair that dpiazza, which can rent up to 1.8k a month. Which APV should be 18k ( roughly). Then 18k x 7.5 perct = 1350 assessment fee?
how about d-piazza unit which only can rent out at 1.3k?
this is one world/one sky assessment discussion, you u keep on drag other condo into the sea by hoping MPPP raise the value for other condo.
if d-piazza APV is 18k for residential usage, then 1 world/1 sky APV shud be 36k which can be use for commertial purpose.
@spunit
1 own 1 unit at the light area and 2 units in tanjong bunghah areas.. And I definely wish that residential assessment fees will be maintain low..but I m not too optimistic.
Ok.no more posting from me…happy investing and flipping
@None
Yes, by right if most of the units in D’Piazza can be rented out at 1.8k, then their APV should be ~21.6k. But, is this the actual fact? That is why MPPP do a survey (by right every 5 years if not mistaken) to get the actual APV for the property.Now, if you are the resident there or you are an investor, will you reply honestly to the survey? If you have a house in mainland that is in a small Taman, you will realize that the APV does not move much across time because mainly people buy to stay there and maybe a few only rented out. These properties’ APV will hardly move and therefore the assessment rate don’t go up much.
For OWOS case, since the building is new, MPPP need to take few benchmarks from other commercial properties within the same area to calculate the APV. Unfortunately, there is no special guideline for SOHO and these type of property has no choice but lump into normal commercial unit. So again, OWOS should appeal to MPPP. Independent revaluation will help.
Really headache even for us as outsider look into this mess. Really pity especially first time buyer and own stay.
Some point from law, In the first place before purchase, was there elements of misinformation, fraud or perhaps owner fail to perform own due diligence process?
The level of RISKS in buying NEW properties seems not only from developer bankruptcy, economic downturn, poor quality condition, OC by authority etc.
But also with all those S&P, terms and conditions, future unknown assessment/ taxes.
Golden old advice: Car should buy new, house not necessary.
THANKS EVERYONE for this very interesting and more importantly AWARENESS EDUCATION in selecting properties.
You know, I keep reading all the comments and I see bashing/blaming on OWOS residents or MPPP. I pity both sides and let me share/enlighten future buyers
The fact is everybody ignore that when developer request approval for land from MPPP, they submitted a SOHO LAYOUT PLAN(Meeting Room/Pantry/Reception etc) to MPPP. After approval, build and smoothly replace the layout plans promote the units with HOME LAYOUT PLAN (Kitchen/Bedroom/LivingRoom) to the public!!!
The fact is MPPP has failed to protect the people of Penang from an obvious developer fraud who not only cheated the public but also MPPP themselves! And nobody seems to be going after the Ideal developer…sigh
On the topic of the assessment, there are lots of us residents in OWOS that really stay there and not using it as homestay (for those that bought it intending to do that, good for you, i clap for you). My personal case, I was already 2nd buyer after OC. I read through the whole S&P and house rules and what not before handing over my $$$. There were indeed rules in there that specifically states that no business is allowed – heck even a commercial lorry/van is not allowed to park inside – therefore assuring me that I’m getting the right place to stay. So please, be considerate to alot of us honest residents that were basically victims in this case (to those that just simply ask us to stop complain and suck it up – it is a very inconsiderate and short-sighted comment)
The way I see it, we cannot argue in form of legal anyways. Using the MPPP calculation formula, a monthly rental for a 1200sqft residential in Penang is easily 1.5k. That translates to RM18k APV and (commercial)10%-RM1800 | (residential)7%-RM1260
Even if miracle happen and we win, it’s only reduction from RM2400 annual assessment to a RM1800 assessment (since legally that is the ACTUAL MPPP formula for a very long time!)
Now, the part that should interest you guys…..if you agree on my calculations and RM1260 is the correct assessment for 1200sqft residential units in PG, then 99.9% of people in PG has been UNDERPAYING for many many years..correct?
What OWOS is fighting for is not only for the fate of our own condos but instead the fate of all of you Penagnites…be it investor or ownstay. If MPPP gets their way, sooner or later be prepared for everybody to pay at least 4x what you are paying now (unless you tend to rent out your house 4x lower than market price haha)
On the good side, this will generate 4x extra assessment income to the state, maybe potentially freeing us from federal dependencies and bigger developments. Optimistic thinking is a good thing
So, take a breathe and look at the big picture guys. Cheers
To add on, if indeed we want to talk about black and white, sure…MPPP can just shut us off and wash their hands. But that would be sooooo irresponsible of them
The fact is how can developers be allowed to sell SOHO houses and marketing them off as residential to the public. So issit every buyer nowadays need to dig until land plans in MPPP before buying house? Should we no longer trust developers nowadays? Why are the developers allowed to openly and blatantly LIE to the public? Where’s the enforcement? There’s loopholes they need to close up!
Now there are 500+ units which are victims of their negligence. We are now merely asking them to take corrective actions and protect the public, protect the consumers from these rich developers’ actions! They are the real reason we are stuck in this commercial title-use-to-stay nonsense. We really want to see the government stepping in to protect us when injustice has happened! That’s what it means to be a people’s government
@Wong
But developer already told you it’s commercial title mah when they sold it to you, No?
What did the developer lie to you about???
no need to argue now, tomorrow got a meeting at komtar 930am right. Let’s see whats the outcome.
@putumayung
Unfortunately I bought from original owner and not developer therefore further covering up the problems
Anyways, it’s the fact that what they tell MPPP of the purpose of the units is different than what they tell the buyers. So therefore MPPP will definitely charge a Office Rental price based on the layout provided by the developer. But the people that are buying are not business people but instead normal ordinary home owners due to developer marketing is targeted directly at “home” owners not “shop” owners
@Wong
But i thought you bought it from original owner, not developer. Should you blame the seller instead of the developer, for your case at least?
It’s hard to say who is at fault now if focus on black/white.
But this whole thing is also only possible only because our MPPP laws allow it to happen.
As a government body, do you just stand at the side and keep your hands in the pocket and say “too bad!” when 1st time home buyers – who are usually lacking knowledge – make a mistake or take this as a wake up call that there needs to be some policies to protect future home buyers?
Doesn’t this make them seem..i don’t know….irresponsible?
@Wong,
Well, if you had a car accident one day, do you blame Henry Ford for making cars affordable for everyone, do you blame the government for allowing people to buy cars, or …..anyone else you can think of you can blame?….:)
@ putumayung
If accidents are purely “accident”, that’s unavoidable. But even those has backup plan – insurance
Anyways vehicle accidents are a bad example. We are always trying to reduce accidents. Thats what traffic lights, driving tests and laws are for..we’re not driving lawlessly around (caveat – underage drivers/mat rempits etc)
Let’s give a situation : If there’s a huge pot hole in middle of highway causing many motorist to fall and tyres punctured, hence accidents, should the highway operator be responsible to jump in?
You see, I didn’t blame the highway operator for causing the pothole in the first place. I only merely expect that when a problem has arise, the right people need to step up to solve it or make it not happen again
We’re talking corrective action….not blame the creators…god, you’re making me laugh dude hahaha (no sarcasm)
@Wong
You buy a SOHO unit few hundred Ks, and you dont know what is SOHO unit. You wanna blame other people?
For this case, it’s more like the driver drove his car into a construction site with a sign prominently displayed “Only Authorized Vehicles Allowed”, and then met with an accident, and subsequently claimed that he didn’t understand what the sign means. Even insurance won’t cover you for this case…..:)
Nevertheless, I agree with you certain controls have to be put in place to regulate the building of this type of “useless” properties to reduce wastage of valuable land……:)
Already made so much $ from the price appreciation.
Why it is a big deal about the rate of $2,000?
It is like income tax, the more you earn the more you pay. You brought this property because it is located at superb location right, now its value increase, so you pay more!
When buyer telling the seller the price is too expensive, can nego or not, the seller says it is market price. If cannot afford, don’t buy.
Now my suggestion to the owner is, if cannot afford the fees, sell off your unit. The fees is market price. Cannot afford don’t own.
what is the price appreciation like for OWOS? are we talking about 200-300k each unit?
anyway, i think OWOS owners strike did a good deed to all future buyers. if you want to buy a commercial unit or SOHO for own stay, prepare to pay the hefty cukai pintu every year…
@LY
That’s the thing I do not understand. Why would anyone want to buy a commercial for residence?
@putumayung
Putumayung, I strongly believe you are from MPPP and some of your team members, it sound like you are very aggressive and protected with the formula that your team come out. Most of the reason that you gave not reasonable, it looks like strong persuade public to accept this wrong things.
But the problem is, most buy for own stay because of the reasonably low purchase price in the first place. My school mate bought one unit for own stay. And speaking of rental, there is no one “fixed” rental. Some may rent high, some may rent low. And where do we draw the line?? That is the issue at hand. And since this is a commercial title, the rental is usually/normally calculated to be higher.
@ezalor
Nothing wrong to do that, just up to the authority to decide. However, I believe MPPP has their own SOP, with the backup of legal advisor. It’s not easy to challenge.
For others, don’t be happy also becuse its going to affect across.
@Joey
Just bring the highest rental and lowest rental to MPPP, (the rental aggrement with stamping), then they know how to caculate for you.
p/s: I’am not from MPPP.
@One Fact
People never said don’t want to pay. People said want to pay less only…
To 1sky/1world owners, what is the outcome after u all having the Dialouge session at Komtar 9.30am this morning? pls share?
anyone got update on how’s the meeting outcome this meeting?
So no one know what happen in this morning meeting?
Now they being charge rm2.8k from this article. So overcharged by rm800, which is ~30% .
Appeal is appeal. They also have a right to reject no matter you or agree or disagree.
folks, mppp is fair, just need to be fair for them too
@bn
The current way for MPPP is not every business unit charge exactly based on APV actual value, they have give discount from the actual APV. I rent one shop lot in suntech RM2600. One year is equal to RM31,200, then should pay 10.3% x31.2k = RM3182, but the actual figure MPPP charge is ~RM1000, it is 30% of actual charge, somemore the size is less than 700sqft.
Rental for CEO office lot 1300sqft is RM1.8k, yearly is RM21.6k, formula need pay 10.3%x21.6k= RM2224, but actual figure MPPP charge is only RM500
@bn
If the APV value for 1 world & 1 sky are RM18000, it follow and not more than other 100% commercial building, RM18k x10.3% x 25% (benchmark CEO) = RM463.50. To be fair, MPPP should charge them RM463.50 instead of RM2000++.
It is not fair for this 2 condos, MPPP always have the discount value after APV.
Rental for other commercial office lot 1300sqft is RM1.8k, yearly is RM21.6k, formula need pay 10.3%x21.6k= RM2224, but actual figure MPPP charge is only RM500
If the APV value for this 2 condos are RM18000, it follow other 100% commercial building, RM18k x10.3% x 25% (benchmark discount from other commercial project) = RM463.50. To be fair, MPPP should charge them RM463.50 instead of RM2000++.
@hoo
If CEO is really paying RM500/year for assessment fees, there is no reason why OWOS should pay RM2000++. I think your appeal should yield positive results.
Anyone can provide the prove that CEO is paying RM500/year?
Yes agree. Even for residential condo titles, there is huge discount. This is because the authority also take into account the welfare of the people…
Problem is with migrants engineer from other state. Want to goreng property but dont have money to pay assessment. So, my suggestion is dont come and goreng Penang property.
As long as there is data to prove that mppp overcharge. Then I guees mppp need to reevaluate
@danielong
Mr captain obvious. Why you state something that is so obvious? Why not you say we need to eat to continue living?
@cukaiman
Again, you should not take residential as comparison. Taking CEO for comparison is ok, because it is also commercial. This is a very simple principal but a very important one.
For sake of the property owners/buyers, what were the result of the meeting with MPPP?
Is there any gag order?
Or is it just a conclusion of “look into” it?
Only those who attended the meeting in Komtar will get discount. Those who did not participate the protest will be status quo, while those who participated the protest but did not turn up for the Komtar meeting (pang poy ki) will have their assessment increased (lots of owners will be in this category).
I am saving this quote so that the authority can use this to prosecute you for impersonating.
Not only saving the quote, you need to lodge a police report.
Otherwise you might get bitten back later with accusation of withholding evidence with intention to intimidate or extort……:)
Cool down, I managed to ask 2 real owners, the main reason why they cannot turn up is because of the dialogue arrangement by the MPPP was too short and not transparent. MPPP prepare letter is at 9-April Wednesday, request to second dialogue in komtar at 11-April Friday Morning. The funny thing is the 2 owners never receive invitation letter or email from MPPP, they only get to know from the their Condo Management noticeboard at 10-April night time. Then, how they have enough time to apply leave to go komtar support? MPPP thought every owners are not need to work and free to waiting them to call up anytime. Furthermore the owners get the invitation information from third party last minute, MPPP send letter/email to who? What is the intention of MPPP doing this? It is very bad arrangement from MPPP.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202705319368029&set=a.2079373497846.116352.1050280454&type=1&theater
From now onwards detailed info will be shared to owners only.
@1sky
selfish
I happen to have friends in kl who bought commercial suites. According to them this concept is not new. It is a city lifestyle concept where everything is in vicinity such f&b, retail banks entertainment etc. To them it is very convenient n prefer this type of condo. So I think it is up to individuals.
is it already close?
no more updates in this matter?
Final decision: reduce 10pct
10% on APV only. It was RM22,800 and RM28,000 for units which are from 1,160sq ft to 1,450sq ft in size. Now it will be ~RM20k to `RM25k. Owners still need to pay ~RM2k-2.5k assessment rate.
Dear owners in One world and One sky,
good day!
may i know as at today, did you all manage to get any tax reduction from the town council ? as i am facing the same problem right in Johor state and wish to know yours final outcome ?
Awaiting for good reply soon:)
Miserable owner. ..