Hi Jert,

yup it does really sound fishy. But its supposedly a letter for the 9% discount for early birds, we have to sign it 14 days from the date right, the snp that was signed was at a different date which might be more than 14 days(stamping duty etc.takes sometime) , so the latest letter is to give them a written permission to allow them to put the accurate date accordingly. But might be best to confirm this before signing.

Hi carezone,
accoding to your statement above,you mean they will change the snp date to early in order to fit the 14days?snp date at dec2012,stamping at jan2013,they want to change the snp date close to 9% discount date or stamping date?they must stamping within 30days after snp?
if change to early date,then it is good for us, but i just afraid they will change to other day which may prolong the construction date.tat all i am concern about it because they did’t put any date changes in the letter.

i don’t think there is a must to stamp the snp within 30 days, look like the construction date will drag till mid of 2017 (48 months) at least.

@QT
Not really. I’ve received back my stamped S&P after the week of CNY during signing my loan agreement. Stated that the delivery of vacant possession is on Dec 2016 (48 mths). After that, daily interest applied. Guess i am the first batch after all

haix yup, mostly its for the benefit of the developer, lawyer also belongs to them.
You guys already signed?

@carezone
Yes, signed > stamped > received copy back > waiting 1st release (should be within this mth)…

@TYT,you received another copy of snp after you signed the letter(from lawyer) or you refer to your snp after cny?i also received back the snp after week of cny.
@carezone,i am waiting the lawyer to give me the snp new date .

@TYT
i only called to sign snp before cny, but never get anything back from lawyer.

@Jert
I signed the letter together with the loan agreement after CNY, and at the same time the lawyer gave me my copy of stamped S&P & Deed of Mutual Convenant.

@QT
Most probably you will get your copy when you go to sign your loan agreement. Lawyer save cost for postage ;p

@ TYT, frankly – i got nothing after snp, suppose i should have a hardcopy of what i have signed. but

@TYT same,i also get both of document you have, but the prob is the lawyer give me another copy of letter few week ago and ask me to sign, the purpose is change the snp date,haiz. ur lawyer also o&h?
@QT may be diff lawyer firm, but i think you can check with ur lawyer firm since we all get the hardcopy as well

@Jert
Yup same lawyer. So far i have heard nothing on the letter but i do rememeber sign some consent letter about the S&P date during after CNY because they pull in earlier the S&P date to Dec 2012. I don’t see any issue with that as the most important thing is stamping date and when the vacant possession delivery on S&P.

@Jert, you mean photocopy of certified snp, dead of assignment and …. ?

@QT
Is this your first property He should mean the original copy as we have signed 4 sets of documents. Each for purchaser, developer, lawyer, and financier.

@ TYT, yes yes, can’t wait to move in ..

@QT yes,TYT is correct. i also can’t wait to move in, but still need to wait 4 years,still long way to go. nvr mind, the show house is going to be done soon, then we can imagine how it will look like first
@TYT u wait and see whether the lawyer got call u or not,they just called me last week

@QT
@Jert
Nice to have genuine buyer here I’ll update if the lawyer call me.

Setia Sky Vista seem look nicer.

@Vincent

Price also looks nicer.

@onered86
Yes and you are right, its uncommon. In fact, the first time I’ve heard of Developers covering MOT were in Johore ie SP Setia for their factories at the Industrial Park and TTDI for some of their projects in Klang valley. Anyway, it may get more popular as developers get more innovative and competitive via their pricing strategy.

I notice the floor layout of setia pinnacle is door to door. Meaning the your door is facing your neighbour door. Feel dont have enough privacy. Fiera vista and one imperial layout is good. But door is side by side with neighbour Why market all layout is like that

Anyone knows when is the showroom ready? heard it is next month

Site Progress Update:
http://www.setiagreens.com.my/products_setia_pinnacle_progress.asp

Notice many people are talking about SPA…From what I know, purchaser have to sign the SPA within 14 days and the Stamping date on the SPA must not be more than 30 days or the purchaser will be charged panelty…This is the standard procedure by the Ministry of Housing…I think most of you have to sign the extension letter is because Setia do not want the purchaser to be charged panelty which I think is a good thing…

Thanks all for the updates, but i wish to knw when is the exact day the showroom is open for viewing?

SOme where june. Exact day dunno.. But only for Type A & Type C unit. No type B unit

onered86 :
SOme where june. Exact day dunno.. But only for Type A & Type C unit. No type B unit

Thanks One Red, pls update when u go visit the showroom,
mine is type B unit, but oh well can still view for fun the other type of units.

@Carezone
I am type B too. new neighbour. Which level and direction is your unit?

Thinker :
@Carezone
I am type B too. new neighbour. Which level and direction is your unit?

Hi Thinker,

Good to have neighbours in this forum,
so can discuss about the project development and updates.
my level is low level at level 10, facing hill. What bout yours?

Where will be the actual site for showroom? Setia Green?

E.T :
Where will be the actual site for showroom? Setia Green?

Hi E.T,

The actual site for the showroom is at Setia Pearl Island

Cant wait to see the show house…

First time in Malaysia or even the world where people commit to buy before the show house is ready. Show Penang property is very very popular… prices shooting up again

Just paid booking fee for type B 😀

@Thomas Robinson
Blame the gov for letting all these to happen, not only creating loop holes for developers to run away, but also encouraging speculation.

government need money (from property sale tax) more than the ppl that need the house….

anyone knows if the show room is ready?

@carezone
Mine is level 16 facing town. Please feel free to email me at kc.lim28@yahoo.com for chat ;p

@Furs
You just bought ? another new neighbour. Your unit must be high level and facing hill?

Hi neighbors, just bought mine on level 31, why don’t create a fb page for all the future residences to have discussion there instead of putting it here?

@Thinker
Yes, you are absolutely right.

still got unit available ah?
i tot sold out, and minor for bumi lots nia…

J :
still got unit available ah?
i tot sold out, and minor for bumi lots nia…

got few… but with bad floor & unit number……….

carezone :

E.T :
Where will be the actual site for showroom? Setia Green?

Hi E.T,
The actual site for the showroom is at Setia Pearl Island

Any idea when the show house is ready for view?

Guys, do u know where is the water pump room & electrical room located?

No news on when the show units are open to public. Heard that they are already finished with the interior decoration. Only left is the outdoor landscaping.

Guys have a question here, have your bank release the first amount yet with any letter? I am curious as the ground work has started.

Info from lawyer. 1st payment expected around August – sept

Is the mountain steep? Looks quite steep

there is one unit at top floor available…

Jacob :
Is the mountain steep? Looks quite steep

It is a hill slope, not mountain. Steep slope is good for daily exercise. The building just 39 floors high only. No need to worry.

@Mr One
39 floors quite high already. I think should be the highest building in southwest area.

is the 9% rebate still available?

@J
No more already. I think the question should come first is “Is there any unit available?”

ezalor :
@Mr One
39 floors quite high already. I think should be the highest building in southwest area.

high ground is good. No flood problem. Just I don’t like them trim off so many tree, make the construction site look “botak” at the slope there to put the “Setia Green” sign. I think the “Setia Green” sign also help to reinforce the hill slope other than advertisement purpose.

@SK

some said there is some unit left..hehe…
think wont be good unit also…

hill :
Info from lawyer. 1st payment expected around August – sept

say if you get 90% loan,
is the 9% rebate given after completion or during the 1st payment u will need to pay the 9% first?

J :
@SK
some said there is some unit left..hehe…
think wont be good unit also…

I agree with you on the bad units. Those units probably are bad in fengsui where it is located too near to the hill slope is not good.

@Mr One

yea..is the bumi lot released now?
last time when i ask the sales, they said bumi lot is yet to release..dont knw hw true is it..

@J

Bumi lots will be released maybe 1.5-2 years from now. Not so soon. Even released, dont expect it to be cheap!

Anyone know what is the maintenance fee per sqft ? I heard 30cents per sqft, is it true?

@spse

For 90% loan. 9% is deducted on the fly. Means, buyer only pay 1% (10%-9%) to complete the purchase and sign ASP.

Does this building has lightning arrestor? It is 39 floors high and sit at hill slope. Dangerous if don’t have lightning arrestor especially during storm.

@setia2013

yes, this is true, 1.5 years later, yea..i can imagine it wont be the price now.

Will this place going to have a hard time having jam to reach jelutong express?

setia2013 :
Anyone know what is the maintenance fee per sqft ? I heard 30cents per sqft, is it true?

I asked Vincent and he quoted for type B (1315sqft) management fee is approximately RM320/mo, thats about RM0.243/sqft

Jacob :
Will this place going to have a hard time having jam to reach jelutong express?

There will not be traffic jam during thunder storm. People will avoid using the road during storm for a lots of high rises and hill slope. Sunny day sure jam.

@Jacob
Go there and experience the traffic. Is useless to ask here as there are so many morons in this forum. Also, penang go anywhere frm point a to b also jam. Tell me where no jam… prime location like gurney jam, the light jelutong highway jam, bayan lepas jam, jelutong jam, even balik pulau oso jam. Jam or not is abt how convinient your prefer location like going to work, fetching kids to school.

Jacob :
Will this place going to have a hard time having jam to reach jelutong express?

Yes, hard time. Even harder when all the new condo projects are completed in the 2-3 years time. That kind of jam, deep inside when you want to come out for buying morning newspaper.
Of course, people with vested interest, already bought a condo and stuck inside, will be very defensive and emotional. Well, it is normal, after wrong decision, have to carry loan debt, traffic getting worse, no wonder he said every where also jam! How convenient is that statement .
It is like every one also can fall sick, who not falling sick? The thing is cancer is not usual.

The morning rush during raining will be the worst, as you need to be on time to the factory area.
During raining , people with bike switch to car I think . It could be quite frustrating
After work , traffic jam still bearable as the most late dinner only

Lau :
The morning rush during raining will be the worst, as you need to be on time to the factory area.
During raining , people with bike switch to car I think . It could be quite frustrating
After work , traffic jam still bearable as the most late dinner only

It is cheaper that area, I went to my colleagues house warming, RM300K only for big spacious if not mistaken. Give and take, traffic congestion but cheaper a lot .

@Vince
U dont have to change your name moron. N I do not own any property here.

No matter what’s the feedback from public, no morel unit available, all sold out.

@David
Are you sure all sold out?

I just called SPI office…

2 more units available but one the top floor…

unit was open again due to the purchaser unable to obtain loan…

currently the promotion package is

5% rebate
Free legal fee and stamp duty for SPA and Loan Agreement
100% DIBS

@Cardevect
Those interested better hurry….

seems like a lot of un-affordable people want to try their luck with DIBS. It is either those people got rejected loan are not affordable, or the bank feel the project is high risk or over-value so not approve the loan amount.

@skateboard

For this case, the Banker is evaluating the borrower’s financial, not the developer

@tonton
if banks are confident about the future price of the project, they will not hesitate to approve the loan. This is full DIBS until OC, in case the borrower bankrupt, just lelong the property and bank will not lose a cent. so why the bank pull back on the loan approval?

@skateboard
If the borrowers not qualified at first, how the bank gonna honour the loan?

@skateboard

Most of the purchaser who do not get their loan approved at mostly having problems with their ccris, ctos, high commitment or income too low.

But if income is too low then the purchaser still have the option to put in additional name to get a better financial standing.

@Cardevect
Rejected loan due to lower income? If a lot of investors, or a lot of buyers is buying with the commitment close to the limit of their income, will future have problem for maintenance fee collection? I think the maintenance fee is RM300++ per month, not cheap consider the available facilities.

@Camellia Lee

Yes, initially I was looking for a unit in Setia Pinnacle, but the sales person told me all sold out.

@Ahuan

I was talking to my friend from SCB. He was saying he got many customers who bought Pinnacle but then some rejected because of their income RM3-4K only which is not enough to obtain the loan as the monthly repayment will be around RM2.5-3k at least.

But from the current trend now, purchasing with at least 2 names is widely done. Like husband+wife, or brother+sister. Therefore, an average of RM7-8K of total income should be able to qualify for the loan.

@Cardevect

So did you booked a unit here?

I’ve been to Setia show village. Can see the show unit is almost
done. But not allow to go inside the unit. I am a bit disappointed that the balcony is quite small. It’s only around 3 ft

@Win

Which size of show unit u viewed? They built show unit for 1000sf and 1500sf.

@AL
The 1515 with the L shape balcony. I expect it to be at least 4 or 5 ft width. But it seems only around 3 ft . Same for the 1000 type

@Win
A bit narrow…not enough for two persons to stand back to back

may i know where is the show unit located?

i just saw the balcony, a bit of disappointing about it. It is just too narrow

If you wish bigger balcony, it will offset other areas like living room. I’ve no issue with 3ft width

@Zod
Do you know where is the showroom location? Is inside SPI clubhouse there or nearby somewhere? Thx!

Just visited the showroom today. Kena halau…sighh. Can’t wait to go inside..

is at the setia show village, i kena halau too @Hulk

i also kena halau, think interiors are done, just exterior
the exterior design is not important for me

i asked setia and they said the show unit is not yet complete and it is dangerous to go in. That is the reason they gave me.

thx for the good info here. I just done w SPA + bank loan agreement.

Looks like for type B & C there is no utility room, I only noticed it recently…

So many people kena halau…Looks like the guards are really doing their job…People would rather have guards doing their job rather than sitting down…

Went to SP office yesterday and they mentioned the show rooms most probably will open after Raya. Also saw 3 police officer with Setia logo (2 policeman, 1 policewomen) riding motorcycle on SPI patrolling that area which i think is good for the community.

Guys, do u think it is possible to add more plug points in our own unit?

@Jacob

too early to comment.. wait get VP first

When is VP?

Hi, i hv 1 unit in Pinnacle. I want to sell already. Is it possible to sell b4 VP?
10q

why you wanted to sell @AndrewC ?

Zod :
why you wanted to sell @AndrewC ?

Fengshui not good?

just came bk frm visiting sps sales office. disappointed that all non bumi units are fully taken up alredy. not even 1 available. bumi lot ada but x release yet.

pg ppl really got money sapu clean all new launches.

MeiX2 :
just came bk frm visiting sps sales office. disappointed that all non bumi units are fully taken up alredy. not even 1 available. bumi lot ada but x release yet.
pg ppl really got money sapu clean all new launches.

well can try to see how much @AndrewC wanna offer

already august… but show room still not ready… zzz

onered86 :
already august… but show room still not ready… zzz

Did they tell when is ready?

MM :

onered86 :
already august… but show room still not ready… zzz

Did they tell when is ready?

After Raya

For type B & C unit, there is no utility room available, any idea to share on how to vacant a utility room?

Nbours, any sign of piling. View from zan didn’t see any progress.

Show room is ready. Can view anytime from now.

@onered86
Have you view it? Any comment? Must go tomorrow.

Went there this afternoon. The showroom not completely done n the guard only allow to see from outside. The launching will only this 17th.

I kena ‘halau’ again by guard today haha and actually the reno not fully completed yet… received sms this sat will be official opening for visit.

I got the sms invitation as well. Manage to take a peek inside. But also chased out by the guard. Saw police patrolling SPI again.

Just confirmed with Setia’s staff, this saturday is open house for Raya, yet pinnacle’s showroom is still not open for viewing.

Just confirmed with Setia’s staff, this saturday is the open house event for Raya, but pinnacle’s showroom is yet to open for viewing.

AL :
Just confirmed with Setia’s staff, this saturday is the open house event for Raya, but pinnacle’s showroom is yet to open for viewing.

I’m so sad to hear about this new… T.T

Can enter.. just have to request staff in office to open…

Any1 visited de showroom ??any comments

@onered86
hi onered86,just tell them you want to see,then they will open for you, no matter you are owner or buyer who interested to buy?
can share how the show unit look like?
Thanks

Don’t buy apartment & condo, earthquake in Kedah this morning. Malaysia no more safe from earthquake already.

Hahaha, u really make me scared, pls lah everyone here know that Malaysia espcially Penang Island not safe from earthquake and tsunami, old story lah this…whereelse to go, a href=”#comment-156754″>@meemee

guys any 1 went to the showroom???
hope the give a nice 1 and no regret in buying the unit

this page have been silent for some time..those who visited the showhouses leave yor comments ..

Show unit is not available for public viewing, yet.

y need to wait so long, thought it is complete long time ago.

any more unit available?

hi, anyone received an email from setia asking for signing of an agreement for the 10%? should we sign this?

SNP already stamped? When is the completion for this project?

i have no idea when the showhouses will be open for public viewing..
it was told to be rt after raya actually..

Just ask today. Showroom’s interior is not yet ready. Have to wait 1-2 months.

Don put too much expectation. I guess It will be open when SP setia open Bumi release lot.

Actually i managed to peek inside the showroom from main entrance. Looks like 90% completion with furniture as well. That’s 2 months back and until to date they keep saying “not yet ready”. Sighh…

not sold out? why still need show room?

@passby

It’s just like a preorder of the house, and show room let you have an idea what willl you get. It’s never too late to make an order after you view the shows room provided there’s the unit still available.

do anyone know how tall the unit ceiling height is? I notice that PDC projects (seaview & ocean view at BW) ceiling height only ~8 feets height…

how much per square feet?

hmm can consider to buy 1 for investment, but the last time I went to SP office this one is sold out dy from developer :/

@Q
Around RM450-500 sqft depend on size.

TYT :@Q Around RM450-500 sqft depend on size.

too bad it’s sold out. going to wait for either setia sky vista@relau or the peak@sungai nibong

Is the first 10% been drawn? Almost near a year when we signed the SNP on Dec. I could see some pilling progress there. Or SP Setia is filty rich to avoid to bear the DIBS and not yet drawn from our financial banks?

when will this project be complete?

How’s the show room coming along?

went there last Saturday, demo unit not ready yet…

Wait…..wait and wait Long long la if u want to see the show unit. SP setia even completed their new office but for the show unit, don know when can complete. So, u really think that is that difficult to built a small little show unit.

Just got news that show apartment will be ready 4th Jan.

At Show Village @ Setia Pearl Island

Finally, the long-waited show units are ready for viewing!

Anyone viewed the show units as yet?

@dev
Yup… highly satisfied with my 1095 sqft layout thou the bedrooms are a bit small which compensated in larger living room area.

Units are spacious than I expected. Yea, agree that living area is spacious but bedrooms are not.

For 1000 to 1500sf…i think the bedroom is quite standard size because most of the condo room size that i have seen is similar size but i really like the living and the kitchen area…

The living room makes you feel like you are staying in a 1800 to 2000sf condo…

Glass railing changed to steel railing ???@ all balcony areas

Small bedroom can capture the “wealth”…. Chinese emperor’s bedroom all kecik kecik one…

KT :
Small bedroom can capture the “wealth”…. Chinese emperor’s bedroom all kecik kecik one…

then those stay in 700sqf LMC can capture wealth better than those stay in bungalow??? hahaha

Thanks for the update…is it possible to upload some pics of the show unit in this forum for those who are unable it to view the show unit themselves..including myself.

You guy can go to facebook to like, share and view picture for the showroom

Page name: Setia Pinnacle

Went to the show house, very nice. The layout design doesnt waste space, and it really give u spacious feeling. Like the kitchen.

@dev
Search in Facebook for “Setia Pinancle” page for progress update and showroom pics. Can’t paste the whole link here as admin still pending to post.

The 1000sf showroom ID looks great than 1515sf.

@Buyer @Tan…….Thanks for the link

Hi, I heard that there are units available, but very expensive, 1095 for RM 693k at 31st floor

Around 550/sqft, CNY package got discount and only 4% deposit. no more DIBS. Detail, pls go to office at Spice.

So expensive 693k for 1095sf compare to those surrounding projects.

@yu
This is SP Setia, of course come with premium. but come to subsale price, may be the selling price is just similar, or a just bit higher than the surrounding projects. “No meat” for subsale.

This is SP Setia so it must be more expensive than the normal price.

SP Setia is nothing now.

EcoWorld is more brighter

Compare this project current price vs Reflection current price, which one would you guys go for? Since both same developer. Advice greatly appreciated.

@James

in my opinion, Reflection location is better, surrounding is just a lot landed so not so high dense…..Setia Pinnacle is deep deep inside a lot landed + CONDO (more than 5 new condo projects nearby) so u can imagine the density in future….

BUT, to buy Refletion u need to folk out 10% solid downpayment + easily 20-25k for lawyer fees/agent fees……u can move in in 3 mths (after the purchase transfer completed) but also means that u need to prepare another 30-60k (minimum) cash for renovation/furnish.

For this Pinnacle u only need to pay <30k to buy it but need to wait till 2016/2017 then only can move in……mean while u still have time to breath n collect bullets…

ur call……if cash rich…..Reflection….

in my opinion…..I go for location location location….that's y I dropped Pinnacle

I just bought Reflection and just got the key now. I have think the same question like this at early but I go for Reflection because Reflection is already done and I can see everything by my own. Some more I just pay 670k for a high floor unit and it only take 530 psf. I can start staying or rent it out to make profit.

@ush-ush

@Lim

Thanks ush-ush and Lim for your valuable replies.

Lim, if in were to buy Reflection for the purpose of investment solely, do you think the rental can cover the interest? Whats the rental rate for 1260sqt bare unit? Thanks

Rental surely can cover interest. Now the rental there is from rm1700 to RM2000 god a bare unit. One more issues is Reflection only having 300++ unit but pinnacle is 400++ units.

RM2000 rental?? Wa bei hiao kaki bei ah?? Siao!

U can buy but a lot of outstation working or foreigners worker will not buy. And their company will actually pay for them.

Anyone receive letter mention built in air conditioning system and built in water heater system complete with water strorage tank?
What does it mean, mean sp setia will provide heater and air conditional point to us?

@Jert
Yes. Received that as well. We are aware that it will come with a/c points and piping + water heater systems. But i am not sure full system of a/c (compressor and a/c unit) will install for us or not.

Since the SnP already mentioned the availability of air-con + water heater connection points, it will only make sense that the letter is about Setia giving air-con + water heater electrical appliances which were not stated in the SnP.

i also hope that it is the electrical appliances. but i cannot find a reason they such a generous.
if it is true, then how good is sp setia.

Maybe other thing is compromise, so that repay with this? Since sales already confirm and profit is there, dunno what is the agenda behind. Or maybe I’m too sensitive.

Just write in and clarified with Setia Customer Care.

The Setia Pinnacle units come with FREE Air cond & Water Heater.

1 ) Built in aircond to all bedrooms, living & dining area
2) Water Heater for 2 bathrooms (Master & Common) with individual water storage tank

May i know when is the completion date for this project? What would be the estimated rental price for it upon completion?

Anyone know where is the tnb power station will build, saw from skycube tread. Afraid will bring effect to pinnacle

just some feedback…take note of floorplan of S.Pinnacle building on any typical storey….
seems to have very little light inlet openings, voids or airwells to allow for sufficient sunlight as well as airflow….
corridor looks locked in and potentially dark esp on lower floors….
hope the design is correct and adequate to address this….

Very lousy layout, just step inside the main door can smell something from the toilet. Toilet too close to the dining room and all the bedroom doors can see very clear and direct from the entrance. Not nice looking for relatives or friends come to visit. Room hiding design is nicer. Price is not cheap but giving this low cost flats layout design, no worth at all. This is SP Setia, can’t believe it. People only buy the branding.

SP Setia now change boss already, wondering the quality how good for the next coming housing projects ??? Different boss sure different policymah !!!

@kekpo

You can’t blame them because their brains is in “cube” shapes and got their
degrees from this “cubical” universities in Bolihland.

@kekpo
cant doubt the layout is most ugly i ever see……
but in feng shui it is still ok bcos as long as the toilet is not stay in centre of the house will be fine….
but smell are not depend on how u take care your toilet ……
not everyone toilet is like yours smelly hahahah

normally toilet is not open view for public, just for family members only. i wonder why they design like that. just step out from the toilet , visitors sitting at the sofa there can see u already with some shit smell fly whole the dining and the guest room . wah! is curry smellloh

Hidden bathrooms more waste of space because of walkways. Like it or not is personal choise. Why care to insults others. Haters look no different frm toilet itself since your mouth stint like toilet bowl. Haha…

@Eric
ERIC your last statement i angkat kaki agree that hahahah…..

but this is very cheap and low class layout design, u can refer the gsd or ideal same like luxury condo design.
can’t believe this is SP Setia project

The local developers are catching up fast, some even surpass the branded in term of design and quality…

it is posible to happen nowadays, especially SPS just change boss recently
Anyway, hidden bedroom and bathroom is more privacy and nice looking

Former SPS Ceo Tan Sri Liew stepped down on Apr 2014, whereas The Pinnacle launched at July 2012.
In other words, Pinnacle project still under his term of management.
Similarly that apply to Setia Sky Vista project also.

From the photos in FB, seems that the progress is quite slow compared to other projects.

Hope can finish on time.

Can anyone please update regarding the status and stage of development so far?

@Dev
Join the open group in FB (Setia Pinnacle) and you could see those dev pictures.